Any research into WAR DEX?

[Terabyt3]

Currently I'm on 1:2 STR:VIT Ratio on my WAR.

I can;t help but think that the health boost I'm getting from that 20 points of VIT would be better spent in some DEX. Maybe 2:1 STREX or 1:2 Dex:STR

I know I'll be losing a chunk of HP from the VIT boost loss but the EFFECTIVE health might go up if parry rate and parry% mitigation is better?

Any decent links out there to some solid research into stat levels for parry rate and %?



If slamming points into DEX and STR is better effective mitigation tahn having a large HP pool maybe that's why yoshi-P said in the TGS (WAR's need to do more research



Edit: Because of the thresholds for STR only increasing Parry% mitigation by 1% I'm leaning towards the 10STR 20DEX route.

I don't know the Thresholds but 20 points in VIT gives a 50 WAR around 550 health off the top of my head?! Around 2 hits from endgame mobs?! If Parry rate and % mitigates more than that 550 points of VIT it's better effecive HP. Where are all the number crunchers in this game!

[Maelwys]

Any decent links out there to some solid research into stat levels for parry rate and %?

http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=179/#BnP

Effect of STR was measured and can be predicted, Dex was not (except for the Addendum)

[Terabyt3]

http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=179/#BnP

Effect of STR was measured and can be predicted, Dex was not (except for the Addendum)

NICE FIND!

Pretty good read even though it's from P3 but assuming this data is correct and STR and parry reduction is a 40-41-40 threshold I'm seriously leaning towards DEX>STR>VIT for a War build.

The bit that REALLY caught my eye was ". Just by increasing Parry by 81 points, Hulan added about 6.1% to his parry rate."

The extra 550 hp from VIT stacking can easily be countered if your parry rate hits high enough.

Perhaps,
PLD = STR>VIT>DEX, (Block percentage and hate building attack power > HP Buffer vs. Magic damage > Block and parry rate)
WAR = DEX>STR>VIT (Parry rate > Damage output for hate abilities AND Parry mitigation > HP buffer vs. Magic Damage already boosting natural HP buffers from Defiance)


Note: This is all theory bashing anyone reading this. Feel free to jump in and discuss why 550 HP from stacking VIT is better than foccussing on Parry rate and Mitigation

[Derza]

NICE FIND!

Pretty good read even though it's from P3 but assuming this data is correct and STR and parry reduction is a 40-41-40 threshold I'm seriously leaning towards DEX>STR>VIT for a War build.

The bit that REALLY caught my eye was ". Just by increasing Parry by 81 points, Hulan added about 6.1% to his parry rate."

The extra 550 hp from VIT stacking can easily be countered if your parry rate hits high enough.

Perhaps,
PLD = STR>VIT>DEX, (Block percentage and hate building attack power > HP Buffer vs. Magic damage > Block and parry rate)
WAR = DEX>STR>VIT (Parry rate > Damage output for hate abilities AND Parry mitigation > HP buffer vs. Magic Damage already boosting natural HP buffers from Defiance)


Note: This is all theory bashing anyone reading this. Feel free to jump in and discuss why 550 HP from stacking VIT is better than foccussing on Parry rate and Mitigation

raising parry rate by 6% is not much when you consider when you do parry it is only a 20-25% damage reduction... not 100% so getting 6% more parry rate is about 1-1.1% overall damage reduction FOR PHYSICAL DAMAGE ONLY. I hardly find stacking 81 points in dex even remotely worth that.

[C-croft]

raising parry rate by 6% is not much when you consider when you do parry it is only a 20-25% damage reduction... not 100% so getting 6% more parry rate is about 1-1.1% overall damage reduction FOR PHYSICAL DAMAGE ONLY. I hardly find stacking 81 points in dex even remotely worth that.

Where did you get these numbers? Genuine question.

[Derza]

Where did you get these numbers? Genuine question.

Well the numbers are correct although i thought he said 81 points in dex not parry...you wouldn't get 6% parry chance from 81 dex it would be 2%, the thresholds are right around every 40 dex = 1% parry chance. As for the other numbers the damage reduction for when you parry is based off of your str and those values are, if i remember correctly 281 = 22%, 318 = 23%, 363 = 24% 405 = 25% (i think the 281 and 318 might be off by a few points) So if you raised your parry chance by 6% the overall damage reduction would be 6% of your mitigation when you parry (or 6% of 22-25%)... I just guessed when i said 1-1.1% ... the actual value ends up being 1.32-1.5% physical damage reduction for 6% parry chance (using 22-25%) but the thresholds for dex are also ~40 points per 1% parry chance... so you would need at the least 41 ish dex to get 2% parry and at the most 80 dex to get 2% parry (depending on how close you are to the threshold from the start) so say you use 41 dex and get the 2%... 2% of 22%-25% is only a .44%-.5% physical damage reduction no reduction in damage vs magic ( More likely it will be about 20 dex to hit the next threshold of 1% more parry chance... so 20 dex for ~.22-.25% Physical damage reduction).

[Kaalan]

Dex, in the same way as Str, works by cap. Stacking it or mindlessly throwing point in it is absolutely useless. Many people say 211 dex is the parry cap, which means we need 20 points, and you'll get at least 27 from acc if you pick some HQ DPS acc (which any warrior should, we need some)
But anyway, I wouldn't bother with that, It has been proven that dex is even less stat effective than parry, which is already kinda crappy so...

As for why VIT > Parry :

Take a boss that deal a verry quick burst of damage that equal lets say.. 7k5 hp.
If you're at 7k with a high parry rate, sure, you might mitigate a lot of this damage. But what if you don't ? You're going to get destroyed, and it's a wipe.
Now you have 7k5 hp, gj, you survived, you even had a chance to parry despite having more HP.

Parry is a terrible stat. The mitigation itself isn't that big, and the chances will always be kinda low. It is a good thing to have, but it is a awefull thing to rely on, and even worse, gear for. Get to those str/dex cap, you'll got parry on your gear anyway. Vit/DPS/Acc are more important.

[Terabyt3]

one boss hittting that extra 550 isnt really a good comparison. Have you got any links to research in parry rates? I really want to look into it a bit more is all.

I get where you are coming from that parry is more effective over a duration whereas VIT is more effective vs. spike. But seeing that a) most battles are not spike but fast chain attacks and b) fight usually last longer it may be possible that an increased parry rate is better.

Take your example and adapt it a bit.

The boss deals 7k damage over 7 rapid attacks.

With VIT stack you survive with 550 hp left~ish.

IF! parry rate can get up to say 20% with 20% reduction you will survive with 560 hp left~ish. Edit: Totally wrong.... Maths fail. It'd be about 280. Even with 25% chance of 25% mitigation you are still left with only 437.5 HP. What is the softcap on Parry rate and reduction. ive never really focussed on the flying numbers anyone out there achieved around 25% or higher in damage reduction from a parry?

As the fight goes on for a longer period of time the effective HP from parry would become MORE effective than the effective HP granted by VIT. But all this depends on the actual numbers for Parry rate and % in 2.0. i know some research was done in 1.0 and such but things may have changed.

[Kaalan]

The problem I have with parry is that it's nothing more but a %. On that same 7k over 7 hit sequence, you can parry all of them, just like you can parry none of them.
If you parry all of them, then yay, it's really freaking great, if you parry none of them, it's stat that are worthless and might result in a wipe in certain situation. I don't say "ignore totally parry" I'm just saying, hit those caps and leave it there. HP is reliable, you'll have them constantly no matter what, parry is not.
As for parry rating, you'll have a lot just by grabbing your gear.

Once fully geared, I aim for 415 STR (last cap is 405), 218 DEX (last cap is 211), 467 VIT (~7k7 HP with defiance in a party), 467 ACC (you need around 460 to never miss in coil), 493 Parry, 386 Crit rating, 261 Determination.
This is with Bravura +1, AF2 gear, 3 HQ DPS Acc (Neck/Ears/Wrists) and 2 HQ Tank Acc (rings) with two materia on each. After that point I guess I'll throw all of my money to meld even more, which will probably be 100% into crit rating.
This will allow me to hit all of those cap, have a reliable HP pool without ignoring the fact that a WAR actually needs offensive stats aswell since it's our own form of mitigation.

[Terabyt3]

Snip

Nice! How did you distibute your stats then? Can you point me in the direction (gimme a link) for the DEX caps and STR caps? I agree that once hitting those caps it's pointless piling points into them and this is all just theory crafting and asking the community if they have any links to research in the whole thing that doesnt come from 1.0