The problem with "Instant OFF GCD" abilities makes combat feel less rewarding.

[Hirosashi]

It's only really infuriating for things like silences or stuns.

Things that really need to be used reactively.

So you end up doing nothing for 5-10 seconds while you wait for the ability you have to interrupt, instead of approaching combat like one would expect.

To call them "off GCD" is entirely misleading.

If you are standing there for 5-10 seconds then your ability is on its actual cool down or you have lag my mind can not even comprehend where talking at max 3 seconds which is plenty of reaction time.

[Jinko]

Where in the world are you people getting that these abilities are supposed to be instant!? Stop thinking about wow...put it out of your minds please this is not an instant gratification combat system it takes work and strategy just like playing a real final fantasy game this is not a button mash fest, time your attacks, I have never experienced an issue with this so long as I planned ahead and acted accordingly This is the first game I have ever had to actually try and read incoming attacks to know what I needed to activate for those weapon skills that so not have an aoe affect that hurt.

ROFL, you realise that most FF games you can win most fights by spamming attack attack attack ... right ?

Also lets stop comparing an MMO to a single player game because they function completely different.

...And what right is it of ours to demand that they change something in the game because we cant be asked to adjust to the level of strategy they had in mind for us using with this system. If they say its working as intended then it most likely is working as intended they tried hard to make a game that was awesome and they did and now people are giving them crap for the minor stuff that they cant adjust to because of the instant gratification mindset, these abilities are not in any way meant to be instant, instant cast does not mean instant animation, they are not reactionary skills. This game is more about planning than reaction.

And you don't think the "working as intended" is their lazy way of saying we don't want to or have no intention of fixing that, sorry did you even play FF11, do you have any experience with SE prior to this game ?

If you are happy to believe what they say then good for you, I however do not.

If they did intend for us to have to deal with clunky combat and server latency/lag issues, AoE's that hit even when you are clearly out of the visual cues on screen then their game is going to fail just like SWTOR did.


Everyone goes on about how whiny people are, but ask yourself do people complain when they have nothing to complain about .. you may answer yes to this just to be awkward but I can assure the majority of people have a valid reason for complaining.

[MomoOG]

...And what right is it of ours to demand that they change something in the game because we cant be asked to adjust to the level of strategy they had in mind for us using with this system. If they say its working as intended then it most likely is working as intended they tried hard to make a game that was awesome and they did and now people are giving them crap for the minor stuff that they cant adjust to because of the instant gratification mindset, these abilities are not in any way meant to be instant, instant cast does not mean instant animation, they are not reactionary skills. This game is more about planning than reaction.

What on earth are you talking about? Lets just accept every bad developer design decision for any game ever made because clearly the players just couldn't "adjust" to the developers vision. The clunky combat system is the worst part of the game and is the only thing keeping it from reaching greatness. Stop being a fanboy and realize that Yoshi and his crew did some really awesome things to turn the game around but they still missed the mark on some important things. Combat is not "minor stuff" and is probably one of the most important things to get right in an MMO. Most of the people complaining are MMO veterans and are familiar with every MMO combat system under the sun. There isn't some grand complexity that people are not understanding.

[Hirosashi]

ROFL, you realise that most FF games you can win most fights by spamming attack attack attack ... right ?

snip..

Ok so perhaps I was the only one who used strategy at all in prior final fantasy games, and I did play XI which honestly for melee was basically an auto attack game, I liked the combat in XI it was a nice departure for the traditional template. I agree companies have a tendency to over look flaws, however I do not think the system is broken in this case it just seems that people are unwilling to take it for what it is. I never found myself putting this much thought into my attack patterns in WoW or even XI (Keep in mind for XI I did not make it to end game so I am not 100% familiar with end game content). Either way this is its own game with its own combat system I have never really had an issue with aoe so I cant speak on that I have seen many other people get hit with stuff they say the shouldn't have but I have never experienced it myself. It is truly an instant gratification attitude that ruins this combat system. They never state that these skills are supposed to be instant.

[Kantide]

The problem is that people expect the game to work they way they want it to, not the way it was designed. There are plenty of MMOs out there with different combat systems and maybe the complainers should consider whether this is the one for them. It is inherently easier for the complainers to adjust to the game than for the game to adjust to a vocal minority. If it was that bad the server wouldn't be overloaded and we might not have these lag issues which will fix themselves in time.


I am guessing these are the people that call Capcom when Ryus hadoken isn't the right color of red or call Konami to complain when Snake's CQC combo fails to knock out an enemy in 3 hits. No? Then why complain here. The issue is the same as the other two I just posted. That is how the developer designed it.

If it broke the game, that would be different. Some of the things like asking for a sort feature, or fixing lag, yes. Asking a dev to redesign a working and already fun combat system (again, just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't fun for 500k other people) is like asking a singer to go from Hip Hop to Country.

[Khaap]

You wouldn't believe the number of lost benedictions I've had, where it fires but the player still dies and I lose my cooldown so I cant even save someone else.

[Rin_Kuroi]

That's unfortunate. I guess its just a matter of time before I get sick of the combat. Maybe I'll get used to it.

Can we at least have something that shows when instant abilities can be used? Maybe add it to hotbar cooldown effect or something. I really really hate spamming away on a button because I don't know when I can actually use that ability.

[Rivienne]

I love my instant cast spells! I am not sure I entirely understand this issue...

As far as I have ever been able to tell it casts instantly, just like it says, doesn't it? It goes off, you see it go off, then you see it hit.. No waiting for the GCD, non-interuptable. <3

The way I see things is as follows (correct me I am wrong):

GCD:
Trigger Action -> Action Performs -> Global Cool down -> Trigger Next Action -> Action Performs -> Global Cool down

Off GCD:
Trigger Action -> Action Performs -> Trigger Next Action -> Action Performs

And with off GCD, you can alternate, without waiting in certain circumstances. like

GCD Action -> Perform -> Off-GCD Action -> Perform -> GCD Action

Thus allowing you to just keep going without pause if you have figured out a good strategy.

One example of where I use them is when I go solo monster hunting I can chain like so: Lightning -> Virus -> Aero -> Stone -> Fluid Aura -> Repose -> Cure 1 -> Wait for Virus and Fluid Aura cooldown while Sleep in effect, then repeat (or some other similar chain using stone II).

I never notice any delays in this, it is a very smooth chain of events both in action, and in appearance.

In dungeons I often use <tt> macros, and am prone to throw the instants in between cures of the tank where it is safe (both in terms of healing and aggro) just for a bit of extra dd. And on a rare occasion if I am having trouble keeping the tank healed with a particular mob monster, and things are about to go south fast, I can do fluid aura <tt> to push an enemy away from the tank, and then cast cure II, before the enemy returns (I am also looking forward to getting swiftcast).

Anyways, just my own input. Not entirely certain where people are coming from with complaining about this because I honestly don't see what is wrong in the first place. Granted, I am not the fastest of players. But even so, the only way to decrease the wait would be to remove the perform step, or make a shorter animation, which would reduce the overall quality of the game visually. For me at least. Or to use a stacking attack, where it performs all the animation at once, but not sure how well that could work in an environment like this, more the pure turn based games.

Off GCD:
Trigger Action -> Action Performs ->0.5-1sec animation cooldown-> Trigger Next Action -> Action Performs->

I could be wrong, but I think you misunderstood me. The perform step is the action being performed, not the action taking effect. There is no animation cooldown, because the action doesn't take effect, until the animation is complete. This isn't a post action cooldown, this is the action being carried out.

[Jinko]

Either way this is its own game with its own combat system I have never really had an issue with aoe so I cant speak on that I have seen many other people get hit with stuff they say the shouldn't have but I have never experienced it myself. It is truly an instant gratification attitude that ruins this combat system. They never state that these skills are supposed to be instant.

I think when your skill say Cast: Instant, you generally thing its an instant ability ... or maybe I am wrong :S

Here's an example for you, If I use Swift Cast > raise during Titan, which is a pretty hectic for healers, I will sometimes be in a rush to heal the next target.

So I go Swiftcast (subtarget dead person)> Resurrection > carry on healing the tank with Physick, but sometimes raise doesn't fire off and my Physick just used the swiftcast, I have absolutely no time to stand in place and cast a Resurrection spell, 1) because people are taking damage and 2) I don't want to be standing on a plume when it pops up.

This is pretty frustrating, you can say oh but its working as intended, well I say working as intended = complete shit.

Edit because of post limitation:-

Instant cast does not mean there is not an animation or effect or even that the effect with be applied instantly it simply means there is no cast time. Being able to apply 6 dots in an instant would just be broken, it would take all the skill out of chaining off-gcd and on-gcd abilities together to make a good attack chain.

A good example is thunder to aero, cast thunder the nano-second its down casting you can cast aero bam, two dots on the target at the same exact time, thats how you chain effectively. I dont know of any dots that are off gcd lol so aero was all I had there.

Nobody is asking for this !, for example summoner has Virus(which isn't a dot) and Bio both of which are instant, you couldn't possibly stack 6 dots in one action and you can't even do this in games like WoW which does have instant cast with no animation limitation bullcrap.

There is no reason why an animation has to block the next skill from activating either, they could just incorporate a system where the first animation takes priority and the second one is skipped, its not rocket science, so stop using "the animation must play out" as an excuse.

Show me a job (or class for that matter) which has 6 instant cast DoT's and I will agree with you.

[complexxL9]

That's unfortunate. I guess its just a matter of time before I get sick of the combat. Maybe I'll get used to it.

Can we at least have something that shows when instant abilities can be used? Maybe add it to hotbar cooldown effect or something. I really really hate spamming away on a button because I don't know when I can actually use that ability.

You want UI to show when skills are actually available for use? But that is crazy, it takes all the strategy out of combat. If devs start listening to this nonsense, next thing you know, people going around asking for visual cues to be accurate. SE please make game harder, not easier! If things start to work as you expect they would, then where is the challenge? Also how would arr stand out in the crowd of mmorpgs if you take these unique strategic aspects out of it?
-WhiteKnight