The problem with "Instant OFF GCD" abilities makes combat feel less rewarding.

[VahnValbosce]

This isn't turn based combat, and a GCD isn't a turn. Real time combat should be that: real time.

Um so basically what you want is to blow all your cooldowns in .5 seconds. (having your character spasm uncontrollably like having some kind of seizure during combat) I don't see how that's suppose to be realistic? Since we're somehow on the topic of "real" time combat and realism.

You choose a time to use a certain Global Cooldown between attacks and healing, it simply adds a level of thought process to this game. Like I said before, I attack, use a Non-GCD in between weapon skills, then continue with my rotation. Just explaining what the situation is like, you want this to be WoW then I'm not sure what to tell you and it's not the devs fault if ppl can't change their "I want it all right now" attitude.

EDIT: As far as micro-managing, well guess what, you have to do all that AND dodge shit during fights, so there you go. Adapt to the gameplay and win, or just call it "shitty" and quit and lose, it's everyones choice.

[Aldwin]

/signed

I have seen this issue in a lot of recently released mmos. It really makes me wonder why this isn't the number 1 factor when they sit down and start designing combat. Combat should feel fluid. As someone wrote on this post, you shouldn't feel like you're fighting the controls.

[Makomin]

SE's stance on this is very disappointing. They talk about considering difficulty and planning strategy around the poor design as justification.

But is this the KIND of difficulty we want? This is what other game developers would call fighting the interface rather than the creature. That's not a fun kind of difficulty, IMO. Say what you will about the overall design of other MMO's, but a few of them have undeniably beautiful responsiveness and a great feeling of control because they understand this concept.

And is the strategy required to bypass this kind of poor design the kind of strategy we find fun? Personally I find standing there doing nothing during the times you expect a stun to be required is pretty boring.

[VahnValbosce]

SE's stance on this is very disappointing.

It's funny how truthful the stereotypes are about the forums being full of moaning and groaning, but let me just say this. None of you have obviously played fighting games like street fighter, where you have to actually plan ahead of time during combat. Nor have I suspected many of you know what enmity meters are, because I see alot of DPS just faceroll and get hate, then blame the tank cause he couldn't hold threat, or healers over healing and pulling aggro, etc.

If you want to button mash, then that's fine, but maybe this game isn't for you. The combat is different in this game and is actually very fluid once you understand the rhythm of it. If it doesn't appeal to you or you can't figure out the rhythm then ok, but that's no reason it should be changed.

[Makomin]

derp

Here we go with your multiple fallacies.

1. Negative feedback is not moaning and groaning any more than positive feedback is sucking SE's toes. People don't need to mention that they still enjoy the game with every criticism. It has positives and negatives to be discussed just like any other game.

2. Surely many people here have played fighting games. I enjoy them myself. What people have played or enjoyed in different genres is not relevant here.

3. Your rant about the other class roles and enmity meters has no relevance here (and stinks of people complaining about your ability to hold aggro). You can't infer a person's skill from their opinion of how responsive a game should feel.

4. Big difference between mindless button mashing and wanting a feeling of responsiveness.

[VahnValbosce]

Here we go with your multiple fallacies.

4. Big difference between mindless button mashing and wanting a feeling of responsiveness.

Constant negative feedback does nothing. You choose to look at the negative all the time and disregard anything positive. If your character is doing something already, that means they need to finish what they're doing so they can do something else.

I already know what you want, you want to be able to do a weaponskill then immediately follow up with a stun 0.1 seconds later. The devs already said this isn't going to happen, and the reason being is that Non-GCD's will have no point other than to be blown all within the span of 1 global cooldown, and that is just not how the combat is designed.

My positive response was: Learn and adapt to the style of combat in this MMO, because it's different and that's what people wanted didn't they? I thought the general concensus was that people didn't want WoW-clones.

[Furio]

Completely agree.

Combat is utter crap as it is.

And Vahn, source please.

This game does have non GCD abilities that are intented to be used reactively. Why else keep them OFF the gcd? So no, it's not working as intended.

The system is broken, period. You can't even do your regular rotation in the fear your stun won't register on time (Paladins on Ifrit HM for example).

Really, did you even see the videos posted by the OP? It's obvious.

[Hirosashi]

Completely agree.

Combat is utter crap as it is.

snip..

They are Off-GCD because they are intended to be used strategically between attacks otherwise they would interrupt combos just like any other ability. You can activate an off-gcd ability basically instantly after an on-gcd one but activating multiple off-gcds instantly is a stupid and game breaking mechanic its the wow mind set that game has ruined all games because people cant deal with anything more difficult than mashing there stupid number buttons in whatever order they want because its all instant. I used attacks on Ifrit hardmode because im not bad and I didn't miss stuns, there is a fairly obvioius pattern to his eruptions, right after he would use it I would spam 2-5 combos and then I would chill for a minute and wait for the next stun....the alternative would be that the lazy dps could move when eruption comes up its not hard to dodge.

[Waliel]

Soooo.... really off GCD skills are on GCD skills. I have to hit it like 5 times to get it to go off, that usually takes most of the GCD.

What is the point of an off GCD skill then?

You only have to hit it once at the right time -- the time being half point of your GCD -- and the animations line up perfectly, so no GCD time lost, unless you use more than one at a time. Until the game decides to interrupt your skills and spells for no reason whatsoever, that is. Reactionary stuns, etc. are impossible to get off in time if you just used a skill is something I can agree on. There is also the problem of having to wait for the "longish" stun animations to finish for the effect to actually go through.

Translation, this is caused by the same problem as the AoE and server latency, we don't know how to fix it so you will have to live with it.

It's caused by not allowing you to overwrite animations with another, and we know exactly why the AoE latency is happening and how to fix it. It's because the server checks your position every 0.3 seconds and needs to be lowered to 0.1.

[Jinko]

It's caused by not allowing you to overwrite animations with another, and we know exactly why the AoE latency is happening and how to fix it. It's because the server checks your position every 0.3 seconds and needs to be lowered to 0.1.

I don't think is effected by animation, sometimes I can whip through my cooldowns really fast but other times they will be held back by latency and in some cases the cooldown animation will play and the skill won't take effect, a second later the skill has reset.
(I'm pretty sure this is because the client is saying yes you can use that skill, and the server is saying no you can't)

Fact is neither of those things ill be fixed, and I still think 100ms is too high.

I'd be interested to know what WoW uses for position checks, cause that is what they should be aiming for.