Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[himehime]

hm, didn't see anywhere else for this but, what does everyone have in mind for their endgame "bis" gear?

http://xivdb.com/?wardrobe/2180/Dragoon-Best-in-Slot

this is what i ended up coming up with. seems like an unreasonable amount of coil and rng, but yeah.. this should be 470 acc, 465 if you decide to use mythology necklace for +5 crit -5 acc (depending on if coil needs more than 465 or not)

to be honest, it's probably better to just plan your endgame gearset around your drops and spend mythology accordingly to just barely meet acc requirement while prioritizing det>crit>ss

in regards to contribution to DRG rotations - generally i have an issue with clipping chaos thrust. basically, if i apply a buff chaos thrust, in most rotations there will be 1-2s left on it before reapplication, and of course you can't overwrite a stronger buffed DoT with a weaker one. it's quite annoying @@

[EasymodeX]

in regards to contribution to DRG rotations - generally i have an issue with clipping chaos thrust. basically, if i apply a buff chaos thrust, in most rotations there will be 1-2s left on it before reapplication, and of course you can't overwrite a stronger buffed DoT with a weaker one. it's quite annoying @@

Aha, that's what it was. I kept noticing that once in awhile my CT was not applying as I expected and I forgot about that. How obnoxious. Have to inject a stray GCD after popping the buffed CT. May have to pick up Fracture ^_^.

[Zenmaku]

Aha, that's what it was. I kept noticing that once in awhile my CT was not applying as I expected and I forgot about that. How obnoxious. Have to inject a stray GCD after popping the buffed CT. May have to pick up Fracture ^_^.

I was wondering why this never happens to me.

It's because I use Fracture.

[Ayvar]

Aha, that's what it was. I kept noticing that once in awhile my CT was not applying as I expected and I forgot about that. How obnoxious. Have to inject a stray GCD after popping the buffed CT. May have to pick up Fracture ^_^.

I've been using two alternate rotations to avoid clipping buffed CTs depending on the fight. I've been meaning to post about the DoT clipping issue (re: our earlier discussion on pg. 8 about the same problem), but I haven't had the time yet. Generally the default Fracture rotation is fine in ~80-90% of fights since movement + jumps will prevent the 2nd CT DoT from clipping (you don't have to worry about the 1st clipping the 2nd as you rotate around since it's a >12 ability gap). Here's the original rotation again for reference:

HFP-IDC-TTT-HFP-TTT-IDC-HFP-TTT-TTT

The problem arises on more static fights due to less movement and extra skill speed. With a 2.4 GCD, you'll never clip Phlebotomize or Fracture (until we hit a 2.37 GCD) because you cannot make up a full second of DoT duration over 8 moves because you're only saving 0.8s (2.5*8-2.4*8). However, the gap between CTs is longer (12 abilities), during which you will save a full second of DoT duration, so you'll generally clip your CT dots by a full second if you're using 12 ability gaps. This is further exacerbated by the "snapshot" method of DoT application. The snapshot occurs as soon as you cast the ability, but the actual application of the DoT doesn't occur for about 0.5-1s after you cast the ability. So the application of your snapshotted unbuffed 2nd CT actually comes almost 2s earlier than the buffed 1st CT.

To account for this you want a rotation that extends the gap between CT applications to 13 abilities (this sucks for Disembowel because you want a 12 ability gap for it, but a 13 ability gap for CT). This doesn't change the default rotation too much since it already operated on 9 ability gaps between HT's and only had one CT with a 12 ability gap. To create the 13s gaps, I use this rotation:

HF-IDC-P-TTT-HF-TTT-P-IDC-HF-TTT-P-TTT

This is effectively the exact same as the original Fracture rotation. You're still casting HT/F/P every 9th ability, and you use 3 of each in a full 27-move rotation. But, the movement of the 1st Phlebotomize to follow the first IDC creates the 1st 13 ability gap that you were previously missing, but it also reduces the 2nd gap to 14 abilities (as it was 15 before). The downside is your DoTs get rolling much later, so its worse if your rotation breaks earlier. If, on the other hand, you liked leaving Fracture out and using the IDC anchored rotation to hit your HT buffs and Phlebotomize's on the 8th ability, but still want to maintain the 13 ability gaps between CT's you can use this:

IDC-HP-TTT-TTT-HP-IDC-TTT-HP-TTT-TTT

Cutting off the final TTT would be a little nicer since it would allow you to rotate back to a perfect 8-ability gap between the final and initial HT buff, but it would also clip the IDC pretty badly as that would be only an 11 ability gap between CT's. You could interleave Fracture, but this would cost you the 8 ability gaps between HTs and Phlebotomize throughout the rest of the rotation. I chose to use an extra TTT instead of interleaving two Fractures since it keeps the TP cost down (one of the primary benefits of this rotation) and you get about the same buff durations from just using the final TTT. Also, worrying about coming back to the start of a rotation is not as critical since you'll generally only get through the rotation once on almost every fight in the game due to movement.

I want to be clear on two points for the original rotation. 1) It generally doesn't matter if there is a good amount of movement. Any movement essentially negates the single clipped CT as it will make up the 2 extra seconds you needed. 2) Jumps alone do not fix the CT clipping problem. While Jumps do add a little extra time to a rotation, they do not add nearly enough, and don't cool down quickly enough, to be a reliable means of preventing clipping without some help from movement.

EDIT: I'll actually probably just copy-paste the above into the guide later unless we want to make any significant changes

[Sygmaelle]

in regards to contribution to DRG rotations - generally i have an issue with clipping chaos thrust. basically, if i apply a buff chaos thrust, in most rotations there will be 1-2s left on it before reapplication, and of course you can't overwrite a stronger buffed DoT with a weaker one. it's quite annoying @@

Easy move here : fracture and jump. Don't use a jump if the thing that buff it is off cooldown, like, never, and for any other purpose than that on a long boss fight

[Rystet]

I have been keeping up with this thread and I have not seen any mention of the server wide dot ticking mechanic. If this has already been mentioned I apologize, but I think it is relevant to the DOT Usage/Clipping Discussion.

All Dots in this Game Tick at the same exact time. Its like a server side DOT GCD of 3 seconds. So every Dot on the server "Pulses" at the same time.

So....

If you apply a DOT debuff at .5 sec into the Servers DOT GCD, the first tick will not happen for another 2.5 seconds.

The same situation will apply to the last tick of that same DOT. The Final Tick will happen and there will be window of 2.5 seconds where your debuff has fallen off, but you have not actually missed any potential DOT ticks. Applying the DOT debuff before the 2.5 would still ensure 100% uptime.

This can also work the other way, if a DOT is applied just before the Servers DOT GCD pulse, your debuff could be visible on the target for 2+ seconds, but the final Tick has already landed. So you Could reapply the DOT Debuff early without actually clipping.


Currently it is nearly impossible to track this pulse (set up a metronome?)... but in the future we may be able to create an addon that would impact our rotation.

[Sygmaelle]

There's something more about the dots and I think I kinda figured why FFXIV App is actually not able to track them down "properly", and instead doin a physical damage interpretation of.

Hint : a clue is in that sentence

Did anyone try to see if dots are hittin harder when you use a higher value of determination ? if yes its just a separated physical damage added to your attacks when you manage to land them when the dot(s) tick.

[Rystet]

There's something more about the dots and I think I kinda figured why FFXIV App is actually not able to track them down "properly", and instead doin a physical damage interpretation.

The parsers can not properly determine DOT damage because the combat logs do not include DOT damage, they only show that the Debuff has been applied. The damage is not actually recorded thus parsers have to estimate damage done.

I don't believe this is a coincidence, it is tied to the way DOTs tick (explained in my post above). The actual damage is done every 3 seconds on the server side when/if it registers the applied Debuff.

[Ayvar]

The same situation will apply to the last tick of that same DOT. The Final Tick will happen and there will be window of 2.5 seconds where your debuff has fallen off, but you have not actually missed any potential DOT ticks. Applying the DOT debuff before the 2.5 would still ensure 100% uptime.

This can also work the other way, if a DOT is applied just before the Servers DOT GCD pulse, your debuff could be visible on the target for 2+ seconds, but the final Tick has already landed. So you Could reapply the DOT Debuff early without actually clipping.

Currently it is nearly impossible to track this pulse (set up a metronome?)... but in the future we may be able to create an addon that would impact our rotation.

I think the reason there hasn't been much discussion on the subject is that it is completely out of our control. As you say, we may be able to do something to account for it later, but at the moment there's nothing we can do.

As for being able to reapply the DoT, even if it is done ticking, the DoT debuff is still registered as being on the mob, so an unbuffed DoT will still not overwrite a buffed DoT even if the buffed DoT has ticked already in the final 3s of its duration. You must wait for the DoT debuff on the mob to completely disappear before even casting the next DoT.

[Rystet]

As for being able to reapply the DoT, even if it is done ticking, the DoT debuff is still registered as being on the mob, so an unbuffed DoT will still not overwrite a buffed DoT even if the buffed DoT has ticked already in the final 3s of its duration. You must wait for the DoT debuff on the mob to completely disappear before even casting the next DoT.

Absolutely, that particular situation will only apply to non buffed DOT's.

But the point is there will almost always be some time Left on the Debuff after the final tick has been applied. The actual amount of time remaining could be anywhere from .1 to 2.9 seconds. So when factoring Rotations, and attempting to not Clip any DOTS (not just buffed ones) it is worthy of note that we have a bit of wiggle room.

On avg there will be a 1.5 sec gap between the final tick and the debuff falling off. Even if we play it safe and dont take the chance of factoring anything over 1 or .5... This could slightly change how we look at Skill Speed in relation to some of the suggested rotations.