Help, Why do I lose aggro when healer cast regen?

[Dhex]

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Kitru is dead on with this explanation though I'm not sure about the exact enmity modifiers. In a situation where there is a single add or you simply lose hate to the healer your best course of action is to Cover that player -> then Provoke the target.

In add situations PLD and WAR are left with virtually no tools to deter monsters from targeting an over zealous healer. Flash and Overpower can't outpace Healing AOE enmity generated in 8 man groups. WHM can spam it's high enmity heavy Cure III/Cure II/Medica II and effectively take hate and hold it - I've had PUG WHM's brag they're "tanking" but it only lasts until their MP is diminished.

If you encounter an aforementioned WHM I suggest letting them have their fun, and then letting them eat dirt. FFXIV lacks a support role that can funnel enmity back into the tank or away from DPS/Healers effectively - this was the function of a Thief in FFXI. Hate redirection was & is a /really/ fun role to fill and it adds another layer of player cooperation and synergy to combat rather than the current direct "competition" between tank and party members for threat control. Both WAR and PLD would greatly benefit from a way to funnel the enmity of other members back towards themselves. Provoke is a good tool to jump to the top of the list in a single target emergency - but we can only tank when we're allowed the time to generate the needed enmity base on single targets or group targets.

[Kitru]

Hate redirection was & is a /really/ fun role to fill and it adds another layer of player cooperation and synergy to combat rather than the current direct "competition" between tank and party members for threat control. Both WAR and PLD would greatly benefit from a way to funnel the enmity of other members back towards themselves.

I was quite surprised that they decided to make a game with a non-trivial threat metagame without any kind of complex threat mechanisms. One of the best/most interesting things for a "support" role DPS would be threat redirection and a "support" healer could have a targeted threat drop (or an ability that has different effects depending upon the target's role: tank gets enmity on all target increased by 20%; DPS and heals get enmity on all targets reduced by 20%). While I don't believe that "support" should exist as an explicit role, there's a lot more "support" that could be tacked on to various jobs.

Provoke is a good tool to jump to the top of the list in a single target emergency - but we can only tank when we're allowed the time to generate the needed enmity base on single targets or group targets.

Honestly, Provoke doesn't really do all that much, even in an emergency. The only times that anyone should be pulling threat off of a tank is early on in a fight, when the finishing move of a Butcher's Block or Halone combo would still be more than enough to get the tank back to the top (not to mention providing more than Provoke did anyways). The only time you should need or even *want* Provoke is when you're the MT, you die, you get rezzed, and the OT can't take over MT for whatever reason. At that point, you *need* Provoke because it's the only way to get back to anywhere near the top of the enmity meters because you're starting at 0 while everyone else is in the 4-5 digit range. Of course, this is predicated on it not just being a wipe because the MT died or the OT not being able to pick up after you.

To be really useful, Provoke would need to provide either a time where the enemy is *forced* to attack you (so that you can rebuild a threat cushion) or a fair deal more "bonus" enmity than just max+1.

Also, interesting note, Provoke only generates aggro based upon the highest threat of your current party. It does nothing for ripping threat off of someone that isn't grouped with you (like FATE tanking).

[GrimmWulf]

Thank you for all the above info Kitru, I am a Glad tank but it all applies the same.
Much appreciated

[Synol]

In add situations PLD and WAR are left with virtually no tools to deter monsters from targeting an over zealous healer. Flash and Overpower can't outpace Healing AOE enmity generated in 8 man groups. WHM can spam it's high enmity heavy Cure III/Cure II/Medica II and effectively take hate and hold it - I've had PUG WHM's brag they're "tanking" but it only lasts until their MP is diminished.

-snip-

I tend to cast Stoneskin on a tank so they have time to generate aggro on a pull but occasionally they run in when a regen is still on. Good tanks still get aggro easily, scrubs do not. If you've had WHM's brag they are tanking it is because you are simply a horrendous player.

[Dhex]

I tend to cast Stoneskin on a tank so they have time to generate aggro on a pull but occasionally they run in when a regen is still on. Good tanks still get aggro easily, scrubs do not. If you've had WHM's brag they are tanking it is because you are simply a horrendous player.

Synol. Enter a battle with a WHM using Medic II every 2.5GCD on 8 players with the intent of giving the tank a hard time does not make the tank the /bad/ player - it doesn't matter how well you generate enmity as a tank you're not going to outpace a WHM that's decided to be an impatient asshole. It's common to encounter this kind of behavior in the Duty Finder for repetitive simple things like CM.