Bahamut Coil Saves

[Dorfentyme]

Don't see the problem. In my FC we have three individual groups progressing in coil. Try finding a free company or forming your own group maybe? Trust me, it's more satisfying to do the fights with people who haven't done it before, so you have to learn together. It's a great bonding experience.

Just because it's smooth in your world, doesn't mean it's as easy for everyone else.

Would it -really- affect you in anyway if you could repeat the turns but for no chance at getting gear?

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

Every MMO does that, whether it's called a "lock" or "save" or whatever. It's just a way to limit access to content, both in terms of loot and strategy/training. That's just the way it is.

What players do is indeed form groups, more or less stable from a run to another (called "rosters" in the MMO slang), and work on a weekly basis with that. I have yet to see another way of implementing high-level raids. I'm sure there could be some creative alternatives that could be thought of, but simply removing the restriction isn't one; also the idea of giving loot to some but not others is not viable since:
- not everything is linked to a character, a FC could then just rotate non-locked players to grab crafting mats and the likes;
- when players get loot they get stronger, thus the boss they just killed become easier in a way to kill again, and that's why they have to wait for a week in order to be able to do it again (otherwise within the course of a week each run might get easier);
- it would be pretty complicated to run checks on every player all the time etc,; think about server-side resources and possible abuse;
- there would be countless ways to abuse a non-limited access, as already pointed out in this short thread.

It's pretty much the same concept as "caps" (mythology tomes), every MMO must "gate" and "restrict access" to High-Level content in a form or another in order to prevent players off rushing through content too fast (specifically to give enough time to developers to make new content). Also, the concept of rarity in itself is a strong incentive to stay subbed, which is the basis of the business model chosen for FF XIV. You must think too about the pressure that would be put on players if they could run a raid without limitation: some FCs would then ask their players to run it everyday for other members, that could get ugly. All these restrictions have a history, thus a reason to exist, and have been tested for years now in several titles; and unless one can come up with another system that addresses these many issues, I don't see them going away.

And I'm pretty sure MMO raiding players are fine and accustomed with the current system in their vast majority.

[Zumi]

Just because it's smooth in your world, doesn't mean it's as easy for everyone else.

Would it -really- affect you in anyway if you could repeat the turns but for no chance at getting gear?

I already pointed out people would do the 7 alts 1 main thing to gear up their group super fast, if you are allowed to help other people do the zone. The first 4 turns of coil are really easy once you know the fights.

[Alhanelem]

I see the need for a lock out but it should only be for a day. Like OP said, you're forced to find a group and stick to it. Really hurts players trying to get into coil because of premades. If you complete a turn then are just locked out for the next day it's not a big deal.

I don't think the system hurts anyone. Hell, thanks to the system, I was able to play coil turn 2 without ever having beat turn 1.

They want you to only be able to clear each section once a week. The only adjustment i could see being made is letting pepole who DIDN'T clear a previous section go back to it.

(e.g., I skipped turn 1, but couldn't go back to it until the reset. It would have been nice for me to be able to go back and clear turn 1 with other people who were also on turn 1)

[Kanzer]

Just because it's smooth in your world, doesn't mean it's as easy for everyone else.

Would it -really- affect you in anyway if you could repeat the turns but for no chance at getting gear?

You seem to think it's 'smooth in my world' simply because I'm lucky. I've been with this group of people for over eight years, and when I first joined them in WoW eight years ago I didn't have everything handed to me. I earned my place in their ranks, just as I do now, just as everyone else does.

There's nothing stopping you from finding a good free company to raid with or starting your own group. Your problem is you don't want to put in the effort.

[CrstyCaptin]

I don't think the system hurts anyone. Hell, thanks to the system, I was able to play coil turn 2 without ever having beat turn 1.

They want you to only be able to clear each section once a week. The only adjustment i could see being made is letting pepole who DIDN'T clear a previous section go back to it.

(e.g., I skipped turn 1, but couldn't go back to it until the reset. It would have been nice for me to be able to go back and clear turn 1 with other people who were also on turn 1)

I just don't like the restrictive nature of it. You should be able to do a turn twice a week. As it stands now you have your 8 people you go with and you can only complete a turn once per week. If you skip a turn you can't go back and complete it. If someone new wants to run it they can't because you're stuck with your 8 man premade. I get this is standard of MMO's but it just doesn't seem to flow with the way FFXIV is right now.

[Zezlar]

The real problem with coil right now isn't coil itself, but lack of end game content. There is no 8 man 1.0 CC/AV raids at the moment. It's either Coil or Primals, but primal weapons are fairly useless considering how easy it is to obtain a "relic."

So basically the only thing large groups can do right now is segment down into statics, and then go on hiatus for a week. Amdapor and Praetorium are not Free Company events. Crystal Tower (or should I say Casual Tower?) may alleviate the situation a bit, but there needs to be more 8 man dungeons without lockouts.

[Dorfentyme]

snip

Good job assuming that its ME that is having the issues. I was just agreeing with the guy that I take no issue with being able to repeat Coil in exchange for no loot. My FC and LS are just fine and I don't have problem progressing in endgames in any MMO.

You seem very serious business with the whole "I earned my place in their ranks". Geez guy, it's a game. Get a grip.

I think that "well its always been this way in MMOs" is a bad argument. Yes, it HAS always been that way. Doesn't mean it can't CHANGE though. Game's don't have to copy each other 100%.

[Kanzer]

Good job assuming that its ME that is having the issues. I was just agreeing with the guy that I take no issue with being able to repeat Coil in exchange for no loot. My FC and LS are just fine and I don't have problem progressing in endgames in any MMO.

You seem very serious business with the whole "I earned my place in their ranks". Geez guy, it's a game. Get a grip.

I think that "well its always been this way in MMOs" is a bad argument. Yes, it HAS always been that way. Doesn't mean it can't CHANGE though. Game's don't have to copy each other 100%.

Except that it's not that way in every MMO. It 'used' to be that way in WoW but with how it is currently everyone can see everything the instant it comes out. It completely ruins the immersion and mystique of end game.

I for one am glad that SE hasn't 'copied' their system in this regard.

And get a grip? Of what? It's wrong or misguided somehow to feel proud of what I've accomplished with my friends? Maybe you should get a grip. It's a good thing, not a bad thing. If you don't have the same goals then there's plenty of content for you to enjoy. No need to take away what others find enjoyable because you won't see the content right away.

As content is released, Yoshi-P has already said the previous content will become easier to clear for those who were unable to do so before, while those who are will continue progressing in the new stuff. I'm fine with that, it's how it should be.

[Shougun]

If I understand correctly, then yes please.


I find this system incredibly annoying. It forces you to divide your FC, and since perfect numbers are rare people are often left out and hurt.

How to ensure extra items are not generated requires a bit more thought though.

If you make it so those who have rolled before cant again then the guild could just organizing for you to roll solo on the piece you want and win one piece a week for each person. Similar if you just let those who haven't gone before roll (first core people couldn't get one piece a week but everyone else could).

You could make it so if you are doing a repeat run the rewards are tome stones, which I think would be fine- but then you may have a problem where you go do coil thinking everyone is new but one person isn't and the reward is messed up.

You can change the loot system to tokens or by not 100%- this could work well. Then you could take an above idea and mix it easily in with this:


Every week your first run on each turn will earn you a token, higher turns earn more, after your first run you will earn stones or other things unrelated to the main focus (instead of BiS gear, get things like stones, housing items, vanity, and such like that).


But please SE, these caps and locks- I hope you can revisit them in a way that doesn't punish teamwork and a FC working as a happy unit. (Content seems excelent if you only had 7 friends that wanted to do it, and only 7, but terrible otherwise)