Market Boards need to work like FFXI AH

[MistressAthena]

But I do, as the very next sentence of my quote explains how its already better then FF11, which I think some dont know this was the first FF online, launched back in 1812 or something and its extremely old and outdated. Also none of its mechanics having any real relevance. So FF11's system was trumped by FF14, 1.0,'s original system. Bazaar and market wards, vastly superior to auction housing.

#1 Get off your high horse. Your not that special, nor are you that smart as you try to make yourself out to be. You are a person, nobody special. So stop acting like your the King of England.

So basically it doesn't work simply because its out dated? That's a lot of fail logic right there chief. I don't blame you though society kinda derps your brain into believing that just because its old its "out dated" and no longer worthy. Which is anything from the truth.

You also Did -NOT- explain why its better, what you did was blow alot of smoke of what you do to interact with the market system, and proclaim that's why its better.. Again, completely and utterly failed to bring anything proper to the discussion. You didn't compare, you didn't explain why A won't work because of B. You simply stated "This is what I do" and then said "So that's why its perfect". Which is totally illogical again.

After sifting through terribly fail passive aggressive insults of me and my 'illogical point', I find you basically just go on to strengthen said point. Therefor, no offense was taken. I can try to explain it to you, as I would a small child or exceptionally intelligent goldfish, but I feel the lessons may fall on deaf ears and need to be repeated much like this post already will reiterate what I already stated. I'll try once more though, so please pay attention.

Refer to #1

That LITERALLY is the ONLY item value, the one at the bottom of the item. But you even decide to make up some makeshift reason why the number would be there... When in fact it is absolutely just the price at which it is sold to a vendor. The very sensible logic you claim to be so full of, dictates not to defer from this irrefutable FACT. If something had a vendor price of 78gil, if I listed it on the market at 77, I would be losing gil. Set it to 85 and im seeking a higher profit for the item. You made the mistake of trying to determine "value", when what you spoke of was 'worth'. Worth is what someone WILL pay for something, not its value.

Wow you said something right, but unfortunately you fail to understand why this market system fails in that exact logical thing you said. Ironic isn't it? So let me see if I can teach you something as I would a small child. I'll just be repeating myself however, because I actually literally explained this in the original post. But here we go. (FYI you also contradicted yourself by saying the items value is the bottom number, then saying the items value is what someone will pay for it. That sir is a contradiction).

You are right that an items value is what someone will pay for it.. however.. That doesn't mean on the flip side, that an items value is how LOW someone will pay for it. Nor is the items "true" value how much that item is being under cut. Can we agree with this point? I sure hope so, because if you can't your a lost cause already. But lets assume you can.

How the market is setup now is that the items value is essentially how many people are undercutting it, not how much someone will pay for it. This is common sense, and is more than obvious to anyone who stops and thinks for a second, because the dropping of prices is -NOT- happening because nobody will buy it at a higher price, its happening only to sell it faster..

Now there's something you need to understand about game development. They put ceilings and floors on prices for certain things, sometimes more than others, but this is a guide line to assist in helping to keep prices balanced, but still player driven. The "Ceiling" of an item is how much an NPC is selling it for. -MANY- equipment, gear, accessories, even mats can be bought at an NPC. (But not all, these are considered "rare" and will follow the guidelines of prices set by the rest). That is the cieling, as trying to sell things higher than that, probably won't net you anything unless the player doesn't know to buy it cheaper at the NPC. The "Floor" price, is how much an NPC will buy it for.

Here's an important part, listening closely? None of these are the items "true" value as you tried to state earlier. Got that? I'm assuming no, so I'll explain a bit further. The "Ceiling" price is a slightly inflated price, generally it goes for a bit more than its actually "worth". However, not all the time either, again sometimes game developers put it right at the "fair" amount. However, again the true value is how much someone will pay for it right? So essentially the Ceiling/Floor is not the true value as we stated.

So whats wrong currently? Ultimately the game dishes out so much crap left and right to players the market is having an impossibly hard time balancing out, because everyone and their grandmother has 5 sets of everything and are trying to sell it. That's problem #1. Problem #2 is the way the market is setup currently, allowing, and even forcing players to drop prices more and more and more because other people are just wanting to sell quickly.

This is an issue as its not fair to gatherers, or crafters to constantly be under cut after spending several days gathering the mats, and then creating the items, only to have it under cut by 300%. It's not balanced, or fair to either adventurers or crafters or gatherers.

And yes, I do think a level 50 item is worth 100, if the Value is marked at 100. Especially considering the HQ version would make it all but vendor trash. Alas most items have vendor equivalents, therefor their worth is not based off of their value, but their buy cost. With those, you now have a literal value. To sell to a vendor is 54, to buy from a vendor is 332. The market is clearly inbetween 54-332. Of course there are even exceptions to this, as maybe some may not know of all the items purchased from vendors. So a 54-332 item, may just sell for 500! Welcome to an auction house system, where your worth certainly will not always be someone elses value.

Sorry, I think I covered this above so I'll skip it. If you are wondering where, please re read.

As i also, seemingly, explained... A harvester may have a higher worth in their mind, that does not align with the items value.

That's an assumption and has nothing to do with our discussion.

Stop! We are going to take a short break, so none of this logic becomes a confusing thought that someone might misconstrue as debatable. Okay, ready? Here we go.. Say you harvest Cobalt, you have it down were you get 10 an hour, but you can make 20k an hour farming some dungeon or item. So you set your mind to assume these cobalt re worth 2k each. This is wrong, as it is not taking into account what the worth is. If I buy them at 20 per, why would I ever be crazy enough to pay 2k??

The worth is how much people will pay for it, as we both agreed above. however I already again... went over this above. so I'll skip it again.. oh and FYI.. If that guy thinks its worth that, then its his fault when it doesn't sell.

Again your problem is more complaint then a broken system. You are failing to use it right or over valuing your items. Thats it, thats the bottom line, there is no wiggle room left for personal interpretation. All of which I did explain.

I'm valueing my items based off of the Cieling/Floor the game developers put in, coupled by what players will pay for it. You however Ironically, are doing exactly what your blaming me for, except backwards. Your putting the worth of items much to low, and think just because someone is undercutting that's the items "new" price. It shouldn't be this way. The price should be what -most- people are willing to pay for, not what price the current undercutter is currently at.

To you. Of course it doesnt make any sense to you, because you see red right now. You are upset, confused, and frustrated with a market system in which you are failing to find your rhythm with. That sucks and im sorry, but alas it does not mean it needs to be changed into some weird system that would do worse what you primarily complain of. Someone listing an item at 1000 and getting 5k? Huh.. It will never happen buddy and frankly its truly the only part of this conversation that is "illogical" and without a single penny's worth of sense. Face that courageously, then we can continue a discussion instead of simply a lecture where I educate you on the semantics of the economy system. As I stated (funny how many times ive had to say that, hopefully you take the time to read this one, so as to avoid it in the future) there are other methods then undercutting, which I personally have had great success on. Especially 2 weeks ago, when materia was confusing to many people. I also find markets that not many people list in and I make crazy profit from, almost a shameful amount of profit. "Nobody will buy it!", yes they will. If its a stackable item, I list 2 at the same price (check original post where I expl.. nm) as his 1. Mine sell.

You assumed I'm having issues and I don't understand. I do. But the system is highly flawed, and has serious issues. Plain and simple. I get it, but its wrong. so again, here you go to pointing at what you do with the market and proclaiming that its right, simply because you can sell something. Well Bravo.. but unfortunately doesn't prove anything. As you again, fail to complete any form of thought here other than "I can sell something so it must work!" Just because you can sell something doesn't mean its working right.

You also obviously don't understand the FFXI system as you pointed out the 1000 and getting 5k example. Again, please go back and re read. Also FYI the FFXI AH system worked perfectly that way and kept prices fair, balanced, yet still fluctuating for 11+ years. So your "It wont happen buddy" comment is null and void. I'm sorry.

Is this really difficult or so logically profound to you that it blurs into gibberish? I suggest reading it a few times, as the next tips wont be so specific, least im forced to charge you a fee. I truly thought many of these things were common sense, realizing with this thread thats not the case.

Unfortunately it does seem very difficult for you to understand. Simply because your speaking gibberish doesn't mean I don't understand exactly what your trying to say, but again, I went over it pretty clear above, and I hope its helped you understand the flaws and holes in your logic.

And being that I would thrive in ANY economic system, market-auction-wards-RL, I probably will be billing you a fee for my pointers as it took me a good 15 minutes to type this out. Keep a heads up on your PMs for the invoice, youre welcome, good luck, and have fun!

I'm sure you would, and so would I, however I'm still logical and intelligent enough to be able to see the flaws and cons of a system, if when it has it. Just because its working doesn't mean its working as well as it should or could. I'll be happy to see that bill, then laugh, and charge you back double for having to repeat the same things to you

Also Refer back to #1. ~.-