Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[Conna]

For those that make the silly argument "I've seen warriors do X". I as a healer will tell you that we ARE carrying them and dear god healing them is like playing with a paper cut on the center of your fingers.

[Kitru]

If you played WAR correctly your math doesn't add up. I can use 2 IBs in one Berserk so that totals to between 3500 to 5800 HP regenned and half the time I don't even need that much! lol

You can use 2 IBs in Inner Beast if you also have Infuriate up. It takes 7 GCDs to get Infuriated, assuming you start partway into a combo, and you need 2 more GCDs to use Inner Beast. This means that, in the absolute best case, you need 9 GCDs. Unless your GCD has been brought down to 2.22 seconds (which is 12.5% from Skill Speed), you're talking out of your ass.

The way you talk about using Inner Beast, it is mathematically *impossible* for every single one that you use (and you claim to use it every 20-30 seconds) to be buffed with Berserk. *Mathematically impossible*. Unless you admit that Inner Beast is only useful once every 60-90 seconds rather than every flipping 20 seconds, you're talking out of your ass yet again. Seriously, you don't even try to confront the math; you just pull impossible numbers out of your ass and hope that it sticks.

My rotations insure that my IBs are buffed, no worries.

Because it perturbs me and you perturb me even more, if what you're saying is true, your rotation *ensures* that all of your IBs are buffed. If IB is insuring that all of your IBs are buffed, you'd be getting a monetary payout every time that it didn't. You're not that good with English, are you?

What WARs have to do is catch hate on multi targets and DPS the bejeezus off of one and kill it to mitigate the damage through self healing and the "Death" debuff.

Once again, you're saying that WAR somehow has magical uber-DPS capabilities that the PLD doesn't have. PLD has DPS that is just as good as a WAR. Hell, if you're saving Berserk for times when you need Inner Beast, which you apparently always do, you're going to do *less* damage than a PLD because you're not ensuring maximum contribution from Berserk.

It's getting annoying having to constantly point out exactly how wrong you are and how you keep using the same arguments that have been demonstrably proven to be untrue time and time again. Saying something over and over again doesn't make it true, no matter how hard you try. It just makes you look like an idiot desperate to salvage some kind of relevance when he's discovered that his position is completely and utterly wrong. Hell, you're resorting to strawman arguments because you don't know how to *actually* counteract the fact that I keep bringing up the *impossibility* of your statements.

[HiirNoivl]

You can use 2 IBs in Inner Beast Berserk if you also have Infuriate up.

To quote Chuck Testa... Nope.

If you use Berserk to trigger Wrath V you can use IB immediately following.

If you've got Skill Speed on you instead of VIT / Parry Stacking and Especially if you have the SCH Fey light on top of that, you can get to the next Wrath V in under twelve seconds.

And don't bother asking me how... I'll explain. If you were a WAR and were efficient Wrath stacker than you would already know but here you go.

Vengeance is one Free Wrath Count that with your Maim, Storms Eye, combo and go directly to your Butcher's Block combo 6 GCDs to your next Wrath V, not 8, not 7. Vengeance doesn't have a GCD. Even with no Skill speed that's 15 seconds, not 20. And considering that my GCD is 2.4 without Fey Light, that's down to 14.4. And my skill speed is buffed by Fey Light which is 30% more, then that translates into Under 12 seconds...

So you can see why I love SCH so much. SCH is my favorite heal class. Fey Light cures me more than a WHM ever could.

[Duelle]

and not even on TBC druids and paladins were able to tank RAIDS , heroics and trash yeah but druids and paladins were not able to tank raid bosses. (maybe druids in kara....)

Bear Druids were pretty decent in TBC with the only real "lol u cant tank this" fight being Illidan (since Illidan had Shear and it could only be mitigated by forcing a guaranteed shield block, with only Prot warriors and paladins could).

You are not understanding me - partially my fault. My thought would be to create mechanics that would allow WARs to do things very easily that PLDs would struggle with, through various adjustments. I am simply presenting an idea that would be alternative to have two different classes competing for the exact same role.

Except this defeats the purpose of having a tank roster, which takes us back to the why it is a bad thing to have one tank preferred for something while the other is designed to be inferior for the sake of being different.

[Ehayte]

Except this defeats the purpose of having a tank roster, which takes us back to the why it is a bad thing to have one tank preferred for something while the other is designed to be inferior for the sake of being different.

- What is the purpose of having a tank roster? If I defeat it, does it drop loot?
- Why is it a bad thing to have one tank preferred for something, as long as the other is preferred for another thing?
- Why is an off-tank specialist inferior if they are superior at off-tanking? (I am NOT saying WARs are this right now)

I would re-roll as WAR the second I get home today if I knew that they would become the elite off-tank class that uses complicated skills and mechanics to manage specific groups of mobs in a specialized manner. That sounds awesome to me, I would log off happy every night tanking in group dungeons, or saving the skin of my friends in raids by doing things no one else can. Especially those dirty Pallys.

[Kitru]

If you use Berserk to trigger Wrath V you can use IB immediately following.

So you have Berserk available every 10 seconds? You keep acting as if you *always* have CDs up *at all times*. You will *cannot* have Infuriate and Berserk available every 20 seconds which you continually claim. Of course, you also claim that you use Inner Beast only when it's absolutely required but then say that you're using it *as soon as possible* within a *massively* tight timing.

If you've got Skill Speed on you instead of VIT / Parry Stacking and Especially if you have the SCH Fey light on top of that, you can get to the next Wrath V in under twelve seconds.

Care to tell us how much skill speed you've got? My WAR has 351 and my GCD is 2.49 seconds. I'm curious exactly how much is required to get my GCD down that low (I couldn't find any formula for it). On top of that, I'm curious how exactly you got that much since it's not like there's a lot of gear with tank grade defense on it that also happens to have skill speed.

[HiirNoivl]

Care to tell us how much skill speed you've got? My WAR has 351 and my GCD is 2.49 seconds. I'm curious exactly how much is required to get my GCD down that low (I couldn't find any formula for it). On top of that, I'm curious how exactly you got that much since it's not like there's a lot of gear with tank grade defense on it that also happens to have skill speed.

That's why HQ Darksteel is better than Darklight... you can do things like this.

And don't ask me how much Skill speed I have when you can do the math and figure it yourself.

[Tronic]

My WAR has 351 and my GCD is 2.49 seconds. I'm curious exactly how much is required to get my GCD down that low (I couldn't find any formula for it).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...er=true&gid=10

[SatrinaKali]

Tell me something,

Let the People the choice, Warrior or Paladin, when both are equal then ist ok, then you can say "Bring the People and not the Class"

I have seen a few FC's with a WAR maintank for coil/Titan HM sooooo what are they doing that others are not? Also even if a paladin can tank coil now, and will have an easier time after Crystal Tower gear, a warrior will have an easier time then now too. Are your free companies this terrible that they NEED the easiest classes to perform? Do they just stack BRD/SMN as dps because "Well they are best!!!"?

Also calling for nerfs on a class or buffs without tons of data to fall back on is what plagued WoW's forums and resulted in every class ping ponging around. Class A gets a nerf, B gets a buff, everyone jumps to playing B over A, so then A gets buffed next. Its pathetic.

Lets imagine you want to play a Paladin, but teleportation costs on that class are 5 times higher than every other class in the game. You can still teleport. It's harder for you than your peers, sure, but it's still do-able. Now, suddenly, there is a new place with great gear and amazing content you can only reach by Teleporting there. On top of that, to obtain this gear, you must teleport in and out frequently.

This metaphor makes no sense. This isn't a monetary issue.

What does incredibly obvious and massive class imbalance matter, guys? What does it matter?!

Do warriors need tweaks? Probably, I would like to be able to use Inner Beast more often or have foresight buffed through a trait for warriors. But you people are screaming bloody murder over this. People shouldn't be raiding Coil in this level of gear honestly, since Crystal Tower should have been released, but it wasnt. Would this still be a huge discussion if CT was out? If Warriors were geared up through CT I bet they would have far less deaths in Coil due to massive damage spikes...but go on and call for nerfs across the board on another class while others seemingly are able to play this class.

[Kitru]

And don't ask me how much Skill speed I have when you can do the math and figure it yourself.

So, using the spreadsheet Tronic provided as well as your character, I can tell you're talking out of your ass. You've got 432 Skill Speed. That gives you a GCD of 2.41, which is *well* away from the 1.25 seconds that you're claiming to have.

Does your ass ever get tired of you never using your mouth to do the speaking?