How will new players perceive this game? (A pessimistic outlook)

[Valhinjin]

I really don't get all the pessimism. Granted, I'm just beginning the game, so I haven't run into the "content-less" void everyone refers to. The problems people complain about I simply don't understand or experience. The MMO community cries for change but never supports it - "why can't people stop producing WoW clones... oh wait.. not like this, though."

Granted, I was not around at launch and from the patch notes it seems a lot has been fixed. I also only have a 17 gladiator, 17 pugilist, 11 lancer, 15 miner, 17 armorer, 11 blacksmith, and a 6 leatherwoker - so no end-game toons.

Issues I don't get:

Latency - I simply don't experience this the way people describe it.
UI complaints - I love the break from the EQ/WoW-style interfacing, and they incorporate the actionbar to keep you comfortable. It a well organized menu system, and I believe it to be better than FFXI's menu.
No jumping - Really? Who cares?
Graphical problems - killer machine, it 980x w/ GTX 580 and 16 gigs of RAM... can run pretty much maxed with no problems. My buddy plays on a quad core and doesnt have issues either, even on the lower settings.
Lack of content - I always have something to do. Granted, I can't really comment on this until I'm at max level - so I listed this in both areas. Right now, the level of content is fine... not so sure when I'm higher lvl.
Small world size - I don't just teleport around constantly, I enjoy adventure and travel and the feeling of accomplishment when I get where I'm going. I think the world is great for starter, I do hope it grows.
Market Wards - with the added search, I don't see the problem here. Retainers are a good, innovative idea, I can generally find what I want. It's arranged basically the same way as FFXI with the subcatagories etc.
Crafting difficulty - you do realize this is it's own class archetype right? It's designed as a complete leveling, self-contained system. It provides craftophiles with a legitimate class that they can play and do nothing but craft and gather. I do local leves and power level just enough to make myself gear and gain repair abilities. It's not an "im gonna do this on the side" sort of deal, nor do I think it should be.
Mouse and keyboard issues - I do fine with nothing but the keyboard. Hardly ever touch the mouse. Plays smoothly and works great.
No auto-attack - you gotta be kidding me right? The whole system is based around timing and execution, do people just not understand how the battle system works? Auto-attack would only interfere with your ability to perform in a negative way. That half second delay during your white swing could really hurt the pacing over the longrun.

Issues I can understand:

No mounted travel - Chocobos would be a nice way to get to travel and see the world and not take hours
No mog houses - these are just fun to have for a PvE experience. I really got into the flower planting and the re-arranging and extra storage... the retainers are good but they don't cut it.
Not enough diversity in the world - I guess you could chalk this up to content, but I feel with the space they have created they could have done more with it as far as diversity. I still think it's beautiful, but it could offer more variety.
Lack of dungeons and cooperative content - it seem they have this on the horizon, so it should be in game soon. I don't want a FFXI complete replica, but skillchains and exp chains were a good way to endorse cooperative play, and to really mesh a good party.

To the OP:

I see plenty of people in the towns, and I'm on a mid-population server. I see people in the field. I always can grab a few people for behests, I even got in an old-school mob pulling party like the FFXI days and had a great time. Got 3 new linkshell recruits from it to. I'm more proactive than most gamers though. I refuse to sit around waiting for opportunity, I would sooner start a group than sit around waiting for one to find me.

I love the quests, they are dynamic and all tell a story. I absolutely love the main storylines, to the point where I created a second toon simply to experience the other cities storylines. Whether I pursue it to cap is another story lol, but the quests to me are very fun, and always provide enough of a reward to make it worth my time - whether its a little extra gil or an item I was going to buy anyway. You really don't need "guides" for them - they tell you exactly where to go via description and journal map.

Lack of direction? What more do you want? The main storyline is involved and tells you exactly where to go with the journal map feature, as do all of the other side quests. Of course, I am not a race-to-cap player. I like to experience all a game has to offer. Some nights I get on a do nothing but local leves and crafting. Some nights I gather for a long time and get mats for the upcoming gear I will need. Some nights I decide to check to another class and seek out new weapons to level a second, third fourth job. Other nights, I do leve chains and behests, or get with a group and explore the countryside to find a good place to camp mobs (a la FFXI).

Economy and incentives? Not sure what you mean here. I make mad cash doing just leves, and selling the gathering mats I don't use in the market ward. I get tons of crap that armorer and blacksmith don't need when I'm mining. I make my own stuff, and lots of other people so too, so there generally a demand. I have yet to need an item I couldn't afford. Hell you can make like 50k a day just doing leves and quests, not to mention market ward profits. As a new player, I have not encountered the problem you are describing.

Anyway, sorry for the wall of text, but that's a new player's thorough perspective. I sincerely hope the game draws more player like me, and through it's complexity "weeds out" the fickle MMO "pwner." I like the game how it is, I'd just like to see steady new features and content added, which so far I have.

So, happy gaming to all. If you don't like the game, I can understand it's not for everyone - but it will improve over time and I'm sure will one day have the dedicated playerbase that the FF series has always had, and deservedly so. I have a small LS on Besaid but I'm always looking for new opportunities, feel free to say hello.

- Dulek Valhinjin

[Ostia]

I really don't get all the pessimism. Granted, I'm just beginning the game, so I haven't run into the "content-less" void everyone refers to. The problems people complain about I simply don't understand or experience. The MMO community cries for change but never supports it - "why can't people stop producing WoW clones... oh wait.. not like this, though."

Granted, I was not around at launch and from the patch notes it seems a lot has been fixed. I also only have a 17 gladiator, 17 pugilist, 11 lancer, 15 miner, 17 armorer, 11 blacksmith, and a 6 leatherwoker - so no end-game toons.

Issues I don't get:

Latency - I simply don't experience this the way people describe it.
UI complaints - I love the break from the EQ/WoW-style interfacing, and they incorporate the actionbar to keep you comfortable. It a well organized menu system, and I believe it to be better than FFXI's menu.
No jumping - Really? Who cares?
Graphical problems - killer machine, it 980x w/ GTX 580 and 16 gigs of RAM... can run pretty much maxed with no problems. My buddy plays on a quad core and doesnt have issues either, even on the lower settings.
Lack of content - I always have something to do. Granted, I can't really comment on this until I'm at max level - so I listed this in both areas. Right now, the level of content is fine... not so sure when I'm higher lvl.
Small world size - I don't just teleport around constantly, I enjoy adventure and travel and the feeling of accomplishment when I get where I'm going. I think the world is great for starter, I do hope it grows.
Market Wards - with the added search, I don't see the problem here. Retainers are a good, innovative idea, I can generally find what I want. It's arranged basically the same way as FFXI with the subcatagories etc.
Crafting difficulty - you do realize this is it's own class archetype right? It's designed as a complete leveling, self-contained system. It provides craftophiles with a legitimate class that they can play and do nothing but craft and gather. I do local leves and power level just enough to make myself gear and gain repair abilities. It's not an "im gonna do this on the side" sort of deal, nor do I think it should be.
Mouse and keyboard issues - I do fine with nothing but the keyboard. Hardly ever touch the mouse. Plays smoothly and works great.
No auto-attack - you gotta be kidding me right? The whole system is based around timing and execution, do people just not understand how the battle system works? Auto-attack would only interfere with your ability to perform in a negative way. That half second delay during your white swing could really hurt the pacing over the longrun.

Issues I can understand:

No mounted travel - Chocobos would be a nice way to get to travel and see the world and not take hours
No mog houses - these are just fun to have for a PvE experience. I really got into the flower planting and the re-arranging and extra storage... the retainers are good but they don't cut it.
Not enough diversity in the world - I guess you could chalk this up to content, but I feel with the space they have created they could have done more with it as far as diversity. I still think it's beautiful, but it could offer more variety.
Lack of dungeons and cooperative content - it seem they have this on the horizon, so it should be in game soon. I don't want a FFXI complete replica, but skillchains and exp chains were a good way to endorse cooperative play, and to really mesh a good party.

To the OP:

I see plenty of people in the towns, and I'm on a mid-population server. I see people in the field. I always can grab a few people for behests, I even got in an old-school mob pulling party like the FFXI days and had a great time. Got 3 new linkshell recruits from it to. I'm more proactive than most gamers though. I refuse to sit around waiting for opportunity, I would sooner start a group than sit around waiting for one to find me.

I love the quests, they are dynamic and all tell a story. I absolutely love the main storylines, to the point where I created a second toon simply to experience the other cities storylines. Whether I pursue it to cap is another story lol, but the quests to me are very fun, and always provide enough of a reward to make it worth my time - whether its a little extra gil or an item I was going to buy anyway. You really don't need "guides" for them - they tell you exactly where to go via description and journal map.

Lack of direction? What more do you want? The main storyline is involved and tells you exactly where to go with the journal map feature, as do all of the other side quests. Of course, I am not a race-to-cap player. I like to experience all a game has to offer. Some nights I get on a do nothing but local leves and crafting. Some nights I gather for a long time and get mats for the upcoming gear I will need. Some nights I decide to check to another class and seek out new weapons to level a second, third fourth job. Other nights, I do leve chains and behests, or get with a group and explore the countryside to find a good place to camp mobs (a la FFXI).

Economy and incentives? Not sure what you mean here. I make mad cash doing just leves, and selling the gathering mats I don't use in the market ward. I get tons of crap that armorer and blacksmith don't need when I'm mining. I make my own stuff, and lots of other people so too, so there generally a demand. I have yet to need an item I couldn't afford. Hell you can make like 50k a day just doing leves and quests, not to mention market ward profits. As a new player, I have not encountered the problem you are describing.

Anyway, sorry for the wall of text, but that's a new player's thorough perspective. I sincerely hope the game draws more player like me, and through it's complexity "weeds out" the fickle MMO "pwner." I like the game how it is, I'd just like to see steady new features and content added, which so far I have.

So, happy gaming to all. If you don't like the game, I can understand it's not for everyone - but it will improve over time and I'm sure will one day have the dedicated playerbase that the FF series has always had, and deservedly so. I have a small LS on Besaid but I'm always looking for new opportunities, feel free to say hello.

- Dulek Valhinjin

What glasses are you using ?

[Clevene]

I don't think you got the point I was making at all. If prices go up 10x Gil taken out of the game increases 10x by taxes. There wouldn't be infinite inflation, it would reach a balancing point. However I do think that Gil from leves should be halved. What I'm more worried about is rare items becoming common after time as more and more get added to the economy slowly over time and loosing their value

all i can see from this change is finding the mob to farm that gives me the most gil. and/or fighting over camping spots for gil just like XI, noooo thanks. it's a huge waste of my time to just sit for hours and farm, being a player that can only play a few hours a night.

[SmokeyTheSequel]

While the taxes do take out gil, the problem is that every 8 rank 30 or 40 leves gives on average 100k, and if everyone is doing that every 2 days you have huge amounts of gil entering the economy. The taxes take some out but no where near enough to make up for the amount put in. And the problem with that is that prices will keep rising and rising and rising non stop. A good economy (at least for a game) needs to have approximately the same amount of gil in the game at all times. This game essentially has constant inflation. At this rate, 2 years from now, items would probably cost more than 10 times as much as they currently do. For current players this isn't a huge problem. But it makes it nearly impossible for new players to "catch up" and be able to afford anything or purchase "incentive" items.
However what will likely happen is SE will move towards a game not focused on gil but focused on untradeable items. Not sure if thats good or bad.

This exact same thing happened in FFXI. Two years after the NA release the prices of EVERYTHING jumped to extreme levels. When you started the game you were given an adventure coupon worth 50Gil or something, (its been awhile and im not exactly sure how much it was) and you would run to the AH or an NPC to try and buy a weapon that is somewhat better than an onion sword but it cost 5K.. It was extremely hard to buy anything at the start. I remember people would harass others for being level 15 with a lvl 1 weapon and some other scraps but there was nothing they could do about it. Unless they visited a website like IGE or something and paid $20 to get them somewhat started.

The point im trying to make is that you bring up a good question/scenario that has played out once already and I hope that SE is making it a point to not have this happen again. What I believe will happen is it will end up playing out like FFXI did and make everything rare/ex again.

But to be completely honest. I prefer this method. It cuts out on RMTing. I THINK there should be a series of quests every 10 levels or so for job specific gear or something so that gives an alternative option rather than having to buy something. Obviously, to keep the crafters employed there will be better gear at such levels that people can buy. Making something every 10 levels or so would be a great option for new players without any way of making gil until they can chose a way to sustain themselves with some form or making gil.

It will also make people think twice about not having to resort to RMT websites. At least thats what I think.

Now to all the forum trolls that hate this game and say it sucks with negative comments.

IF YOU HATE THIS GAME AND IT SUCKS BEYOND RECOGNITION.. WHY THE HECK ARE YOU TROLLING THE FORUMS WITH YOUR NONSENSE??? IF IT SUCKS.. GTFO..

[Azurymber]

This exact same thing happened in FFXI. Two years after the NA release the prices of EVERYTHING jumped to extreme levels. When you started the game you were given an adventure coupon worth 50Gil or something, (its been awhile and im not exactly sure how much it was) and you would run to the AH or an NPC to try and buy a weapon that is somewhat better than an onion sword but it cost 5K.. It was extremely hard to buy anything at the start. I remember people would harass others for being level 15 with a lvl 1 weapon and some other scraps but there was nothing they could do about it. Unless they visited a website like IGE or something and paid $20 to get them somewhat started.

The point im trying to make is that you bring up a good question/scenario that has played out once already and I hope that SE is making it a point to not have this happen again. What I believe will happen is it will end up playing out like FFXI did and make everything rare/ex again.

But to be completely honest. I prefer this method. It cuts out on RMTing. I THINK there should be a series of quests every 10 levels or so for job specific gear or something so that gives an alternative option rather than having to buy something. Obviously, to keep the crafters employed there will be better gear at such levels that people can buy. Making something every 10 levels or so would be a great option for new players without any way of making gil until they can chose a way to sustain themselves with some form or making gil.

It will also make people think twice about not having to resort to RMT websites. At least thats what I think.

Now to all the forum trolls that hate this game and say it sucks with negative comments.

IF YOU HATE THIS GAME AND IT SUCKS BEYOND RECOGNITION.. WHY THE HECK ARE YOU TROLLING THE FORUMS WITH YOUR NONSENSE??? IF IT SUCKS.. GTFO..

yeah after rusty cap fishing the ffxi economy was dead. thats why so many people resorted to buying gil. And that just made things worse and worse.

FFXIV is headed in the -exact- same direction due to the -exact- same problem. And if its not fixed by ps3 release i doubt many new players will be joining us

[sketch]

yeah after rusty cap fishing the ffxi economy was dead. thats why so many people resorted to buying gil. And that just made things worse and worse.

FFXIV is headed in the -exact- same direction due to the -exact- same problem. And if its not fixed by ps3 release i doubt many new players will be joining us

agree also

[Kilta_Firelotus]

And only way to fix it, is to drag those stuck in ffxiv as a job. That they must ask for a "salery" for making items. The econamy is player run this time, not npc run. Meaning it is going to be tossed around. But crafters need to realize we do not pay them for their time spent on making items. That is a real life job (or second life) if you wanna get payed vitual money for "working" go play second life under the premium account. Game pays you money as you play.

Here are some econ suggestions that work in a vitual enviroment

1 limit gil on levequests.
2 Players need to take levebreaks to stop filling the game with money that can't move around.
3 Help newbies out in your guilds. Give them a newbie "hi welcome to the game " gil gift package.
4 encourage people to buy items by pricing them lower so they get the insentive to buy vs making their own.

Game econamies are not the same as Real life ecomanies.

[Azurymber]

And only way to fix it, is to drag those stuck in ffxiv as a job. That they must ask for a "salery" for making items. The econamy is player run this time, not npc run. Meaning it is going to be tossed around. But crafters need to realize we do not pay them for their time spent on making items. That is a real life job (or second life) if you wanna get payed vitual money for "working" go play second life under the premium account. Game pays you money as you play.

Here are some econ suggestions that work in a vitual enviroment

1 limit gil on levequests.
2 Players need to take levebreaks to stop filling the game with money that can't move around.
3 Help newbies out in your guilds. Give them a newbie "hi welcome to the game " gil gift package.
4 encourage people to buy items by pricing them lower so they get the insentive to buy vs making their own.

Game econamies are not the same as Real life ecomanies.

what o_O
whats a levebreak? is it like a coffee break?
This game has guilds?
Are you saying everyone should constantly undercut stuff hardcore so that new players think crafting is unprofitable and don't do it?

seriously that entire post confused me.... do you sleep or do you just sit on these forums 24/7?

[Chronic]

The way gil is made in XIV in just fine, gil being easy to get, makes it hard on the RMT's, imo, we just need gil sinks. And fyi it's spelled economy.

yeah after rusty cap fishing the ffxi economy was dead. thats why so many people resorted to buying gil. And that just made things worse and worse.

FFXIV is headed in the -exact- same direction due to the -exact- same problem. And if its not fixed by ps3 release i doubt many new players will be joining us

This is laughable, Gil was in noway easy to get on XI, that was the problem, RMT's thrived in that environment, and that ruined XI. Anyone who buys gil in XIV is an IDIOT. Period

[darkstarpoet1]

And only way to fix it, is to drag those stuck in ffxiv as a job. That they must ask for a "salery" for making items. The econamy is player run this time, not npc run. Meaning it is going to be tossed around. But crafters need to realize we do not pay them for their time spent on making items. That is a real life job (or second life) if you wanna get payed vitual money for "working" go play second life under the premium account. Game pays you money as you play.

Here are some econ suggestions that work in a vitual enviroment

1 limit gil on levequests.
2 Players need to take levebreaks to stop filling the game with money that can't move around.
3 Help newbies out in your guilds. Give them a newbie "hi welcome to the game " gil gift package.
4 encourage people to buy items by pricing them lower so they get the insentive to buy vs making their own.

Game econamies are not the same as Real life ecomanies.

and you need to realize no crafter is going to make gear for someone they do not know and make no profit. you do not spend millions to level up a craft to make more items in the future to lose more gil. if you think people leveled their crafts to be nice and make free gear you have lost it. people paid their gil that they made in game to level their crafts to make gil in return later.

most crafters to give away gear to friends and ls members, but to be expected is pure ignorange. you come to me for an item and if i can make it i will do it cheaper than the server is, but will not do it for free or a loss. you can act like this is not like a real economy all you want, but it is.