Warriors - How to fix our damage mitigation

[Evilmog]

And since I was over the 1000 limit there, I want to add that we don't know how the dodge / parry chances equate in. Does parry factor more for warriors than paladins here because paladins get block also?

That's what upsets me the most.

It really doesn't matter what any of us think cause if it isn't how SE really has it coded it means nothing. GIVE ME PERCENTAGES SE!!!

[Savish]

Are you seriously saying that I'm wrong and you're right because I didn't do the math to account for a fractional difference in a *single* stat (it's a ~3.33% difference)?

Yeah it does matter because you ignore a % here and another % there and it starts to add up you can't completely ignore stats from your formulas for calculating damage I mean that is pretty basic stuff...

Warriors are an offensive tank they were clearly designed as such it was even stated this was their intention so yeah DPS is relevant according to the developers that includes both single target and AOE.

Not once did I ever claim to be right, only that you are wrong, so you grow up and lose the ego kid.

[Kitru]

Yeah it does matter because you ignore a % here and another % there and it starts to add up you can't completely ignore stats from your formulas for calculating damage I mean that is pretty basic stuff...

And what other percentage difference am I missing? The only other disparity that I'm not accounting for is in the non-tank stance numbers for PLD in Sword Oath and the fact that they get different returns out of different weapon speed. You can say that I'm missing so such and such variables, but you really need to look at what those variables affect. Lag is going to have a greater effect upon DPS than the 10 Str disparity between WAR and PLD. Should I account for Lag and what it does to the various rotations (it'll impact WAR more than PLD because of buff/debuff uptimes; WAR has a tight enough rotation that gaps would create downtime in the relevant effects)?

There comes a point when you have to recognize that the difference in a single variable is so small that it doesn't matter. Minute differences only matter when they are compounded numerous times. There is a *single* variable that accounts for a *minute* difference in performance that I decided was small enough not to account for (hell, I didn't want to go and absolutely *everything*; it's a simplified model for a reason: it's *simple*). If you can find a bunch of other other variables that would actually compound to make a substantial difference in my numbers, I'll change my math to account for it. As it stands, there's a single variable with a *minute* effect that I chose to ignore (you didn't find it; I recognized it and performed a value judgment that accounting for it wouldn't have any appreciable effect on the outcome). You're going to need a lot more than that to say that my math is wrong.

Warriors are an offensive tank they were clearly designed as such it was even stated this was their intention so yeah DPS is relevant according to the developers that includes both single target and AOE.

"Offensive tank" means that they tank by attacking. It has nothing to do with comparative DPS. Hell, if you honestly think that tank DPS matters, especially as far as AoE is concerned since that's the *only* place that PLD and WAR actually have appreciable differentiation in performance, why don't *you* do the math and prove me wrong?

Not once did I ever claim to be right, only that you are wrong, so you grow up and lose the ego kid.

Except that you've repeatedly claimed that I'm wrong and turned out to be wrong every single time. It's pretty apparent that you've got a problem with me because you're not trying to disprove anyone else that's done the math (which, yes, other people have done the math). Hell, you're reaching ever further trying to prove me wrong delving ever further into the minutia of my math looking for *any* justification to say that I'm wrong. Hell, you're not even claiming that I *might* be wrong. You're simply claiming that I *am* wrong because you found a variable I ignored. You're not even attempting to gauge whether said variable actually makes a difference. You've stopped actually trying to prove me wrong and have just starting claiming that I am for any reason you can find even if it doesn't even remotely support your supposition.

If anyone has an ego problem, it's you. You're not even trying to discuss anything. You're just trying to prove me wrong to assuage your own ego since you keep falling on your face and looking like an idiot.

[Duelle]

WAR Does seem to scale really really well. With a full AF+1 you have the luxury to grab DPS acc and this will do a lot of good to our DPS (finally) and self heal.

The only way scaling would ever positively affect WAR is if they somehow get a notable increase in frequence of attacks (+skill speed out the ass) or if overhealing were to create an extra HP pool or damage shield. You're still not dealing with heavy hits, and healers still need to heal-spam in order to keep you up because you're still taking more damage.

And obviously, the job has some major flaws that will most likely be issued in the 2.1 patch with some buff and/or revamp.

We'll see.

[Rios-Drakoon]

WAR is just a second Class Tank, Paladin will always be better...

1. Put the 15+ heal on Defiance and increase it to 20-25%
2. Increase Bloodbath to 75% Warrior Only
3. Increase Storm's Eye from 50% to 150%
4. Increase Inner Beast to 400%
5. Thrill of Battle add a Parry buff for 15-20sec (it has 3min CD, so i think 15-20sec Parry buff should be ok)

SE want that Paladin Reduce Incoming dmg, and Warrior should conterheal them. But right now, it does not.
The Idea about Absorb Shield and so on... sorry, it dont fit for Warrior.

Increase the Selfheal from Warrior so that Healer FEELS the Diffrence, because right now, the Healer dont feels if we have Bloodbath on us or not, neither if we use Storm's Path. because the Heal is just to low.

We have only Foresight what gives us only 20% more defense, it reduce the incoming dmg about 5-10%.

Inner Beast is a nice Spell, but Heals about 800 normal, are way to low if we consider we Need to build 5 Stacks Wrath what takes us 12.5sec
I also know whe could heal us for 1500+ but to do that, we Need to Trigger first 4 Abilitys. so again 10sec more.

The Selfheal how is it now is just useless.

ps. sorry for my english

[Ruminate]

The Idea about Absorb Shield and so on... sorry, it dont fit for Warrior.

Why wouldn't an absorb shield fit the WAR? It fits better than healing yourself through attacks. Heck, skills that manipulate ones own health is the mark of DRKs and MNKs, not WARs. WAR just takes hits, so absorbing an attack fits better than healing wounds.

[Savish]

If anyone has an ego problem, it's you. You're not even trying to discuss anything. You're just trying to prove me wrong to assuage your own ego since you keep falling on your face and looking like an idiot.

Keep up with the insults your doing great, still no in-game parses I see so here is a link for you.

https://pay.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...er_log_parser/

Unlike you I don't think our developers to be completely inept in class balance and my brother plays a Warrior he has tanked everything outside of Bcoil, but people like you are creating a stigma that warriors are useless and causing them to lose tanking spots to paladins because people think they cannot tank endgame content.

When both tanks are 100% equal in single target tanking guess what happens? They bring the one with superior AOE DPS.

[Illya]

It's obvious that WAR won't stay weak. They're not stupid and stubborn to a point they would compromise their own game.
In every MMO, you have that class that suck big time early in the game and that suddenly :
- Get to a lvl of gear that reveale their true power and they become extremely op
- Get new lvl and thus new skill completing their kit and they become extremely op
- Get buffed like hell because people whined all over the forums and they become extremely op

It's usually the "assassin" base class but I can see that happen verry well with WAR and I think that, over the time, we'll get a little bit of those 3 points.
WAR Does seem to scale really really well. With a full AF+1 you have the luxury to grab DPS acc and this will do a lot of good to our DPS (finally) and self heal.
Looking at our kit, it verry much look like the foundation of the job, waiting for some concrete (a couple of skills) to hold all of it together and become extremely solid (OP)
And obviously, the job has some major flaws that will most likely be issued in the 2.1 patch with some buff and/or revamp.

I'm really confident that, once 2.1 is here, we'll be really OP and people will cry for some nerfs. Good thing is, by the time 2.1 is out, I'll have my full AF+1 gear on my WAR, and me and people that sticked to it like that will probably be on top of Eorzea.

You must not be familiar with how Squenix works in FFXI. Weak classes stay weak for minimum of 3 years in that game.

And I don't think Squenix has the luxury of waiting 3 months to buff WAR, unless they want every WAR to quit the game entirely or just reroll a DPS class, dramatically breaking the current balance of tanks, healers, and DPS. I want my class fixed yesterday or I'll just level a SMN instead and remove a tank from the pool of tank players. Tanking Titan HM was a pretty big wakeup call for me today, my class is broken beyond belief. I watched Youtube videos of PLD tanking this fight and he just stood there and popped defensive CDs and that 10s invulnerability and laughed at Mountain Buster. I eat 4.5k damage from it every single time. Amazing that Squenix somehow managed to design this fight and not know the difference between a PLD taking 2k from it and WAR taking 4.5k from it.

[Rios-Drakoon]

Everyone who say WAR is just fine has no idea.
There must be a reason why every Hardcore Progress Guild in Bahamut Coil use PLD as tank and not a WAR.

I dont like the Idea to put some Defense Abilities or Shields on Warrior, all we Need is more selfheal, alot more. so we can Counter Incoming dmg like PLD with his tons of dmg reduce abilities.

[hola]

You must not be familiar with how Squenix works in FFXI. Weak classes stay weak for minimum of 3 years in that game.

dev team has changed, lead designer had changed, producer has changed.

yoshi p is a super WOW fan, and we all know how fast wow balance class.