Red Mage as possible new tank class

[TouchandFeel]

So I was thinking about new classes that could be added and Red Mage was the first that came to mind for me (I love their look and really liked them in FFXI).

I don't feel that the way they worked in FFXI would work that great in FFXIV, so I thought why not make them a new type of magic based tank, sort of a cross between FFXI's Red Mage and Rune Fencer.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Rune_Fencer
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Red_Mage

What do people think about this idea?

[Resolute]

Maybe they could use protection abilities and drain type attacks to stay alive? Not sure about it being a tank. But I am not sure what other role you fill as someone who performs white and black magic either.

[TouchandFeel]

But I am not sure what other role you fill as someone who performs white and black magic either.

Exactly, that is one of the reasons that I feel that in their more "classic" form Red Mages wouldn't really work so well in FFXIV since they wouldn't fit so great in any specific role.
That is why I suggested mixing Red Mage with Rune Fencer, which was a magic based tank from FFXI that used magical wards and spells to provide defense.

One other possible way for a magic based tank to be able to soak damage is to have an ability that redirects damage from taking away HP to taking away MP for a period of time.

[Kitru]

What do people think about this idea?

It's possible (it's possible to think up tank variations by applying enmity generation and mitigation increase mechanisms for any class), but I don't think it really fits with the lore at all. Red Mages have always been generalists. They were never as durable as "true" melee classes so it really wouldn't make much sense.

Honestly, Fencer/Red Mage would most likely be a DPS class using a fusion of melee and black/white magic attacks.

The next tank class they add will, in all likelihood, be Dark Knight. Samurai could be a possible second.

[Ruminate]

The Rune Fencer in FFXI played like the RDM of past games.
The RDM in FFXI(while soloing) played like the Rune Fencer of past games.

FFXI gave them En- spells to boost their melee damage, but those spells actually belonged to Rune Fencers(in FFV anyways).

RDM as tanks makes the most sense because that is the only role that will allow them to make full use of black magic, white magic, and melee.

[Kitru]

RDM as tanks makes the most sense because that is the only role that will allow them to make full use of black magic, white magic, and melee.

Not really. If they're a melee support DPS job, which I would expect, the black magic and melee would be the effects of the attacks and the support functionality would be the equivalent of the white magic. They will, in all likelihood, be something like a melee Bard: TP DPS with 2-3 job abilities that allow them to provide some support and a few attacks that consume MP.

It's important to remember that FFXIV doesn't use the standard mechanical definitions of the classes (Red Mage always had a fuzzy mechanical definition anyways, since it was just "white + black magic" rather than anything truly unique). PLD, mechanically, was always a very durable melee/white magic class, but our PLD doesn't have any non-token white magic capabilities. The *theme* is present, but the previous mechanical construct isn't. Hell, Black Mages used to be the owners of most of the spells that SUM uses but those previous constructs were abandoned to give Summoners *something*.

The *theme* of Red Mage has always been a melee/magic hybrid. It was slightly more durable than the standard mage without ever really being as durable as a "true" melee, not to mention that it pretty much always lacked the strong support capabilities of a white mage and never had appreciable avoidance capabilities (that was always ninja/thief/monk). Honestly, for an avoidance/light armored tank, it would be a lot more likely to see Ninja than Red Mage. It's interesting to think up ways for Red Mage to be a tank class, but it's a stretch to make it a tank rather than the more easily approachable DPS/support construct.

[Dhex]

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I've thought about how they'd implement RDM before. I like the idea of a utility Job, and it's something FFXIV sorely lacks.

Red Mage stances or forms would be my approach. Subclass LNC & ??? (ARC PGL?)

Fencer's Stance (Similar to Sword Oath/Fists of Fire): Increases damage 10% and auto-attack speed 10%. Cannot be used with Duelist's Stance or Warlock's Stance.
Duelist's Stance (Similar to Shield Oath/Fists of Earth): Reduces damage taken 10% and increases Parry Rate 10%. Cannot be used with Fencer's Stance or Warlock's Stance.
Warlock's Stance: Increases magic damage 10% reduces spell speed 20%. Cannot be used with Fencer's Stance or Duelist's Stance.

Enchantment Magic:

Enthunder: Your attacks deal extra Lightning magic damage. Consumes MP overtime. Combo Bonus: Riot Blade occasionally inflicts Paralysis.
Enfire: Your attacks deal extra Fire magic damage. Consumes MP overtime. On Parry: Your next attack inflicts Burn.
Enblizzard: You attacks deal extra Ice magic damage. Consumes MP overtime. Combo Bonus: Rage of Halone occasionally inflicts Slow.

Composure: Parry +40%

Warlock's Whisper: Allows two Enchantments to be active simulataneously. (120s CD)

Unique RDM Job WS: Fast Blade -> Riot Blade -> Sanguine Blade

Sanguine Blade: Potency 150 Combo: 280 Potency Extra Effect TBD

A RDM could off-tank, Physical DPS, or Magic DPS...

[TouchandFeel]

@ Dhex

I too would love to see more of a push for real support classes that add that much needed "little extra something" to parties and I could totally get behind that for Red Mages, but as it is right now Support doesn't have its own classification and gets just lumped in with DPS which I personally am not a fan of.

I've personally been a fan of the sort of wild-card classes in FF as well as games in general.

[ZenBear]

So I was thinking about new classes that could be added and Red Mage was the first that came to mind for me (I love their look and really liked them in FFXI).

I don't feel that the way they worked in FFXI would work that great in FFXIV, so I thought why not make them a new type of magic based tank, sort of a cross between FFXI's Red Mage and Rune Fencer.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Rune_Fencer
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Red_Mage

What do people think about this idea?

I like it. Class req's: Gladiator 30/Scholar 15 (Scholars have healing and dmg spells, so it fits more-or-less). That being said, I think RDM fits better as a DD. Give them DoTs and En-Element weapon enhancements to suit various circumstances.

The next tank class they add will, in all likelihood, be Dark Knight. Samurai could be a possible second.

I don't understand the idea of making Dark Knight a tank class. My first experience with the class comes from FFXI where they were straight DD that couldn't last 10 seconds with mob aggro, and I liked it that way. The stark counter of Warrior/White Mage being a protector vs. a Warrior/Black Mage being a destroyer was thematically beautiful.

Samurai, on the other hand, I would love to see as a tank. Being that they were the "knights" of feudal japan, the parallel to Paladins is obvious. Make them a DEX-based parry tank to give them a distinct flavor.

[Calypsx]

Would prefer Dancer honestly as a tank with high evasion and buffs.

http://youtu.be/C5Lfb5dOQSA?t=1m5s

I mean they are portrayed as these awesome fighters who can gracefully avoid hits while going toe to toe with multiple enemies.

It just screams dodge tank to me. I know it's portrayed as a evasion/support but honestly all the scenes you see them battling in they don't really seem like straight up healers and it would be cool to see a change.