Red Mage as possible new tank class

[TouchandFeel]

So I was thinking about new classes that could be added and Red Mage was the first that came to mind for me (I love their look and really liked them in FFXI).

I don't feel that the way they worked in FFXI would work that great in FFXIV, so I thought why not make them a new type of magic based tank, sort of a cross between FFXI's Red Mage and Rune Fencer.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Rune_Fencer
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Red_Mage

What do people think about this idea?

[Resolute]

Maybe they could use protection abilities and drain type attacks to stay alive? Not sure about it being a tank. But I am not sure what other role you fill as someone who performs white and black magic either.

[TouchandFeel]

But I am not sure what other role you fill as someone who performs white and black magic either.

Exactly, that is one of the reasons that I feel that in their more "classic" form Red Mages wouldn't really work so well in FFXIV since they wouldn't fit so great in any specific role.
That is why I suggested mixing Red Mage with Rune Fencer, which was a magic based tank from FFXI that used magical wards and spells to provide defense.

One other possible way for a magic based tank to be able to soak damage is to have an ability that redirects damage from taking away HP to taking away MP for a period of time.

[Kitru]

What do people think about this idea?

It's possible (it's possible to think up tank variations by applying enmity generation and mitigation increase mechanisms for any class), but I don't think it really fits with the lore at all. Red Mages have always been generalists. They were never as durable as "true" melee classes so it really wouldn't make much sense.

Honestly, Fencer/Red Mage would most likely be a DPS class using a fusion of melee and black/white magic attacks.

The next tank class they add will, in all likelihood, be Dark Knight. Samurai could be a possible second.

[Ruminate]

The Rune Fencer in FFXI played like the RDM of past games.
The RDM in FFXI(while soloing) played like the Rune Fencer of past games.

FFXI gave them En- spells to boost their melee damage, but those spells actually belonged to Rune Fencers(in FFV anyways).

RDM as tanks makes the most sense because that is the only role that will allow them to make full use of black magic, white magic, and melee.

[TouchandFeel]

Honestly, Fencer/Red Mage would most likely be a DPS class using a fusion of melee and black/white magic attacks.

The next tank class they add will, in all likelihood, be Dark Knight. Samurai could be a possible second.

I knew that a lot of people would lean in this direction with Red Mage being DPS and Dark Knight being the next possible tank class.
I get the reasoning behind thinking this, but I'm not really into that route because it just feels like the easy predictable one.

Having a more lightly armored nimble class that relies on magic to provide defense seems a lot more interesting to me and has more potential to feel truly different as a tank than just another heavily armored class that carries a big weapon.

Sure this isn't exactly inline with the more "classic" generalist role of Red Mages in previous FF games, but with how role based the classes are in FFXIV, being a generalist doesn't fit very well.

I personally would like to see the opposite of what you said would be most likely, Red Mages be added in as a magic based tanking class and Dark Knights be added in as a melee based AoE DPS class, going with scythes as their weapons like in FFXI.

[Sephirah]

I don't know where this mentality of "if you can't be the absolute best at something you're worthless" came from, but I really don't like it. Just like how warriors think their increased dps is worthless (even though it isn't)

I hope they add RDM, and I hope they keep the "jack of all trades, master of none" mentality. Are they the best tank, healer, or dps? No. But CAN they be a tank/healer/dps? YES. That is where the value comes in, in XI it didn't matter what my party needed, I was able to fill that role.

Edit, this may sound strange to anyone who has read my other posts about how I don't think anyone should be able to do anything, and I still think that's true, you should not be able to be a dps/healer/tank and be just as good at each of those as the class that makes that their main thing. And this should also not be something that every class has the option of doing, but if you do want that versitility, then having 1 class that is able to is totally fine, again just as long as they aren't the best at anything, because then you'd see parties of nothing but rdm, and that's just lame, lol.

[Kitru]

RDM as tanks makes the most sense because that is the only role that will allow them to make full use of black magic, white magic, and melee.

Not really. If they're a melee support DPS job, which I would expect, the black magic and melee would be the effects of the attacks and the support functionality would be the equivalent of the white magic. They will, in all likelihood, be something like a melee Bard: TP DPS with 2-3 job abilities that allow them to provide some support and a few attacks that consume MP.

It's important to remember that FFXIV doesn't use the standard mechanical definitions of the classes (Red Mage always had a fuzzy mechanical definition anyways, since it was just "white + black magic" rather than anything truly unique). PLD, mechanically, was always a very durable melee/white magic class, but our PLD doesn't have any non-token white magic capabilities. The *theme* is present, but the previous mechanical construct isn't. Hell, Black Mages used to be the owners of most of the spells that SUM uses but those previous constructs were abandoned to give Summoners *something*.

The *theme* of Red Mage has always been a melee/magic hybrid. It was slightly more durable than the standard mage without ever really being as durable as a "true" melee, not to mention that it pretty much always lacked the strong support capabilities of a white mage and never had appreciable avoidance capabilities (that was always ninja/thief/monk). Honestly, for an avoidance/light armored tank, it would be a lot more likely to see Ninja than Red Mage. It's interesting to think up ways for Red Mage to be a tank class, but it's a stretch to make it a tank rather than the more easily approachable DPS/support construct.

[allluckys]

I rather rdm be a hybrid melee and caster dps with ws that increase the effectiveness of their next spell cast with unique arry of support spells mixed in to help the party. As for dk stick to the classic theme uses hp to deal high damage then drain back up hp. Soul eater on toggle and drain deals damage and heals depending on the difference of max hp and current hp up to a cap. Next tank should be nin though shadows should work like a block that effects spells as well.

[Dhex]

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I've thought about how they'd implement RDM before. I like the idea of a utility Job, and it's something FFXIV sorely lacks.

Red Mage stances or forms would be my approach. Subclass LNC & ??? (ARC PGL?)

Fencer's Stance (Similar to Sword Oath/Fists of Fire): Increases damage 10% and auto-attack speed 10%. Cannot be used with Duelist's Stance or Warlock's Stance.
Duelist's Stance (Similar to Shield Oath/Fists of Earth): Reduces damage taken 10% and increases Parry Rate 10%. Cannot be used with Fencer's Stance or Warlock's Stance.
Warlock's Stance: Increases magic damage 10% reduces spell speed 20%. Cannot be used with Fencer's Stance or Duelist's Stance.

Enchantment Magic:

Enthunder: Your attacks deal extra Lightning magic damage. Consumes MP overtime. Combo Bonus: Riot Blade occasionally inflicts Paralysis.
Enfire: Your attacks deal extra Fire magic damage. Consumes MP overtime. On Parry: Your next attack inflicts Burn.
Enblizzard: You attacks deal extra Ice magic damage. Consumes MP overtime. Combo Bonus: Rage of Halone occasionally inflicts Slow.

Composure: Parry +40%

Warlock's Whisper: Allows two Enchantments to be active simulataneously. (120s CD)

Unique RDM Job WS: Fast Blade -> Riot Blade -> Sanguine Blade

Sanguine Blade: Potency 150 Combo: 280 Potency Extra Effect TBD

A RDM could off-tank, Physical DPS, or Magic DPS...