Warriors - How to fix our damage mitigation

[Thotor]

This is 100% false
make two identical characters one warrior and one gladiator at lvl 1
Weathered Axe with 150 potency attack does 9-10 Damage
Weathered Sword with 150 potency attack does 6-7 Damage
tested on lvl 1 lady bug

Both have a physical damage of 5, so clearly the damage on weapons is not IDENTICAL or there would not be a 30% discrepancy, it seems damage is calculated based off the auto-attack damage when using abilities not the physical damage listed.

You forgot weapon speed.

[Kitru]

They're not better, they're different. And that's why they're balanced. If you gave them damage mitigation like PLD they would then be unbalanced and people would swing to wanting to take WAR over PLD and the PLDs would cry foul.

PAL mitigates better; has the better emergency CD suite; deals just as much, if not more, damage; has the better utility package; and generates the most threat. How is PAL *not* better than WAR? The only thing WAR does better than PAL is tank in very low damage circumstances because it can self-heal.

The math has been done over and over. There isn't anything that the WAR does better than the PAL. Honestly, are you even paying attention?

[HiirNoivl]

How is PAL *not* better than WAR?

No way does it even approach the DMG of a competent WAR or or mitigate damage better. At most it's equal. If I'm on PLD and my healer is preoccupied with something, and my health is dropping? What do I have, oh yeah Hallowed Ground. That's really it. At least on WAR I can heal myself efficiently until I get some attention again.

The only thing I really envy PLDs on is their debuff arsenal. All I get is Stun every 30 seconds and Bind and then I'm bound too so there's just no escape. PLD has silence and Blind and stun and even Pacification... but if I use Berserk who's pacified? ME! It's just not fair I tell ya.

But yeah PLD damage mitigation is just overblown. They're entirely dependent on healers to keep them up, they can't really assist in the fight because their mitigation does no damage at all. They're truly hate holding turtles and that's great... so long as your DPS is nice and they can kill the mob before it goes Enraged and then there's nothing anyone can do.

WAR's mitigation? Death. At that point, the WAR is taking 0 damage at all.

[Kitru]

This is 100% false

Are you sure it wasn't a crit, because that's a 50% difference in damage dealt. There's also the fact that there is a lot of variability in damage dealt. The listed weapon damage is an average, not a flat quantity.

If what you're saying were true, there wouldn't be any point to looking at a weapon's baseline damage. The only thing that would matter would be auto-attack damage.

I just went out and tested on my own character against level 1 ladybugs. All gear except for the weapon was the same. Tank stances were not used. Using an Axe with damage of 39 and auto-attack of 44.72, I was dealing ~135 damage with Heavy Swing and ~100 with my autoattack. Using a Sword with damage of 30 and auto-attack of 20.8, I was dealing ~100 damage with Fast Blade and ~50 with my auto-attack.

Both Fast Blade and Heavy Blade have a potency of 150. If what you're saying were true, the ratio between the special attacks and auto-attacks would be the same: the ratio of the auto-attacks is ~2:1 whereas the ratio of special attack damage is ~4:3. The ratios are most definitely *not*. In fact, the ratio between the baseline weapon damage and the special attack damage of the two weapons is effectively the same: the two weapons had a ratio of ~4:3 for their baseline damage and ~4:3 for their special attack damage.

As such, special attacks use weapon damage, not auto-attack damage. You may want to use a sample size larger than 1 before you go trying to correct someone.

[Kitru]

If I'm on PLD and my healer is preoccupied with something, and my health is dropping? What do I have, oh yeah Hallowed Ground. That's really it. At least on WAR I can heal myself efficiently until I get some attention again.

So you're saying that the only time that a WAR has any advantage over a PAL is if the healer is completely and utterly ignoring the tank? That sounds a lot like soloing. It also sounds like complete and utter bullshit for any kind of tanking situation because any time that mitigation would actually *matter*, you expect to have a healer around to actually pop you back up. Arguing that WAR somehow has an advantage thanks to selfheals that don't even actually provide a real mitigation advantage of any kind is just naive. You're specifically trying to concoct a scenario where a WAR has an advantage when that scenario only occurs when someone screws up massively or you specifically try to put yourself in that situation.

But yeah PLD damage mitigation is just overblown.

Except that it's not. PAL mitigation is exactly what it is. WAR self healing is what gets drastically overblown. Yes, it's nice, but it in no way makes up for the 8.7% increased external healing requirements and lack of a shield. PLD simply requires less external healing than a WAR does. It's not even up for debate. The only reason you'd still be hanging on to this is if you somehow want to alter reality to accommodate your preconceived notions rather than changing your viewpoint to account for reality. At that point, you're not interested in the truth; you're interested in spreading your own delusions.

WAR's mitigation? Death. At that point, the WAR is taking 0 damage at all.

Except that, based upon both math that's been done several times and your own admission earlier in this very post that I'm quoting, PAL and WAR have the exact same damage. Unless you want to claim that somehow stuff dies faster to a WAR than a PAL for reasons *other* than damage dealt (maybe they deal damage to themselves out of pity?), you're making no sense *whatsoever*. You can't even maintain internal logic within your *own posts*.

[Ahlen]

Not to interrupt the lovely discussion going on, but...can someone point me towards a use for Holmgang? I've tried using it in multiple situations and I haven't found a use for it, yet.

I've tried using it as a sort of stun, such as delaying a boss' "phase change" movement by locking it in place for 6 seconds, but to no avail.

Perhaps I'm not thinking out of the box enough?

I use it on the second boss of Wanderer's Palace if someone is about to get caught....that's about it.

[Bladeryk]

Not to interrupt the lovely discussion going on, but...can someone point me towards a use for Holmgang? I've tried using it in multiple situations and I haven't found a use for it, yet.

I've tried using it as a sort of stun, such as delaying a boss' "phase change" movement by locking it in place for 6 seconds, but to no avail.

Perhaps I'm not thinking out of the box enough?

The second boss of ST after the crystal dies to keep him off his rampage for a few seconds, also it is going to be an amazing tool once PVP is implemented

[Jahaudant]

PAL deals just as much, if not more, damage [than WAR]

Bahahahaha, trolololin away as usual Kitru.

[Kitru]

Bahahahaha, trolololin away as usual Kitru.

You know, it's been shown several times. Saying I'm trolling when the math says I'm telling the explicit truth just makes you look like an idiot. Just because some people who just went with a gut feeling instead of math said that WAR deals more damage (likely based upon just looking at Maim's 20% buff and the fact that WAR uses a giant axe) and you continue to parrot it, doesn't mean you're right. The analysis is pretty apparent.

[Jahaudant]

Kindly forward me to this analysis.