Warriors - How to fix our damage mitigation

[javid]

now you add in Bloodbath (25% absorbs dmg for 30 sec on a 90 sec recast (effective 60 sec recast) )
Thrill of Battle (there is your long recast 120min.. but 20% of MAX)
And the other stuff I first posted for 40% health boost for 15 sec time

[Joypad]

Everyone keeps measuring themselves to Coil when in fact gear is missing in the game in order to do the content properly. Wait until Crystal Tower comes out and you will probably see them on par.

Which begs the question: Is that also intended for PLD's? If it is then they need a rebalance too.

[Morhdd]

It takes more time and more MP to refill the HP of someone with 8k HP who's taking 4k hits versus someone with 5k HP taking 2.5k hits. As long as the paladin has enough HP to survive two hits in a row, they will always be "better" since they take smaller hits consistently.

If the same attack consistently hits a warrior for 20-40% more damage than it hits a paladin for, any time a warrior doesn't have their 20% healing taken buff up they're flat out worse than a paladin. That's not even touching the fact that paladins have better defensive cooldowns.

You don't appear to understand what EHP is or why it's an important thing to know. You should really stop arguing math based on your feelings.

Edit: I spell correctly sometimes.

[javid]

You're just saying words buddy.. no numbers.. we can't get one shotted with 8k hp.... that's just not gonna happen guy... unless you are fighting naked maybe--even then you have inherent defense. Our Dmg out.. is negligible ??? That is also a lie.. WE but out some heavy stuff.

In purpose.... you're looking for clean clear cut roles. THIS GUY FIGHTS, THIS GUY HEALS, THIS GUY STANDS THERE AND GET AN ASS WHOPPIN'

it can be more complex AND still get the job done.


What matters is mitigation over TIME. Damaged taken during a BOSS fight, start to finish. While paladin can reduce each hit he takes you have to account for the time his party takes to finish that boss fight. Likewise War takes more dmg per HIT but also considering the TIME it takes to finish that same boss. THAT IS REAL MITIGATION CALCULATIONS

bring back those numbers and we'll talk

Paladin per hit(Low) X Total time getting hit(High)=??
Warrior per hit(high) X Total time getting hit(Low)=??

[Xenobius]

As I see it, SE is repeating all the old WoW's mistakes ATM when it comes to class balancing and even basic class concepts.
You can't roll a tank class with HP pool alone, you need either mitigation, reactive heals or shields to make up for lost avoidance. Warriors ATM are like feral druid Bear tanks in earlier versions - low utility, high HP meatshields, putting unnecessary stress on healers and not really compensating for their flaws. Class needs a revamp, plain and simple.

[javid]

here comes the ad hominems.....

"he doesn't think like I think;YOU just don't understand"

look guy... stop being personal.. it's a game we can disagree and not have to throw around " you don't appear to understand "

I already admit that paladin are the real dmg mitigators PER HIT

But are they the dmg mitigators per total time spent fighting

Total damage taken during a single fight= per hit counts X time spent fighting

And simply put... you're right it's easier to heal 2.5k HP than it is 5k HP.... but the healing isn't simple. Paladins have access to one healing boost. A healing boost of 30% for 20 sec on a 120 sec recast (effective 100 sec recast)

[javid]

Another corrections Paladin do NOT average a 40% dmg mitigation in a long fight (10 minutes plus) . Shield oath is 20% constant; everything else is atleast a 90 sec recast with a max duration of 20 seconds. The MATH (yes the math) won't allow for an average of 40% damage mitigation if the fight stretches the distance. In fact the longer the fight the closer the mitigation gets to 20% for Paladin

And an answer to your 20% healing buff down = sudden death. Well tactically speaking you can keep your 15% (not 20%) constantly on if NEEDED be. BUT YOU'LL NEVER need to ALWAYS have your 15% healing boost up... no boss hit back to back to back to back 5k dmg....NONE...

so that 5k HP we need back if effectively 4.4k ( @ 15% constant boost) or 3.6k ( @ 40% max boost). Which is still MORE than 2.5k ( 0% health boost) or 1.9K (30% max boost). BUT still not more 2 extra cures tops ( @ 2.5 sec a cast that's 5 more seconds curing that original 5k HP dmg WAR took over the comparable 2.5k dmg a Paladin would have taken (IFF he has 40% mitigation @ that time)

[HiirNoivl]

After using Paladin in Coil, to be honest I wasn't very impressed. I expected a lot more invincibility than I actually received.


There are three major cooldowns for damage avoidance: Rampart, Sentinel and of course Hallowed Ground. The others, Awareness, Foresight, and Bulwark aren't nearly as effective at nullifying damage. Awareness nullifies Critical Damage which isn't bad, Foresight and Bulwark only really effect Physical damage and are not very useful against Nodes and ADS type abilities.

In Turn 1, Damage is mitigated primarily through the mechanic of fight and beating it down as quickly as possible when it splits.

In Turn 2, Damage is mitigated by killing the darn nodes before they put up too many DoTs on your tanks and party (This is also another DPS check). As PLD, I found that the margin of error was what killed us all more often than not. I feel like WAR would be far more useful during Turn 2 than PLD. PLD may be able to survive, but the strategy used with 2 PLD is a DPS killer as the PLDs are doing almost no damage at all in their attempts to stay upright, relying almost entirely on mages to keep them up while they sit there and take damage.

I feel that with WAR Turn 2 Coil groups would have a lot more success.

[javid]

" I feel like SE at least ONE time ... beat this Coil with a Pld war setup at least one time".... its a feeling... dont judge me lol......

[HiirNoivl]

Tanks of all kinds need help from party Members. If you want to "fix" damage mitigation on tanks, then why not take a look at your party?

For example: A SCH using Fey Light on a WAR, really helps the WAR by upping his skill speed and helping him to get to Wrath V more quickly. Fey glow assists all the healers by increasing the amount their cure's do. Succor is an AoE cure that nullifies damage, and Sacred Soil, does something similar and can stack with Succor by giving it a free cast.

In the case of WHM, Regen is really great when alternated with Stoneskin which scales with max HP.

Monks have Mantra which also increases the amount of HP regenerated by party members. (Which helps cure both tanks and increases Succor's healing capacity and also its damage nullification.).

Black Mage's Manawall nullifies two Physical Attacks. Eye for an Eye reduces damage and has a 20% chance that a Debuff nerf damage done by 10%. Virus also helps nullify damage.