Warriors - How to fix our damage mitigation

[Zanther]

one shotted?? which boss you fight hit for more than 5k?? LET ALONE 8K HP vs a warrior??!

Half the bosses in BC. Our FC (currently on turn 5) straight up refuses to take warrior tanks now and they all rerolled paladins. The fights are now 10x easier with 2 paladin tanks vs 1 paladin and 1 warrior. Warriors are terrible tanks at the moment and need to be looked at. Having more hp = wasting more mana for healers to restore that extra hp (that is draining at a faster rate).

Tanks are also not for damage. We dont care what you do for damage. Our tanks could do 1 damage a swing and we could give two shits. We have non shitty dps for damage. We want our tanks to survive "oh shit" moments....

[Kiteless]

Except a Warrior's improved damage is negligible (both in terms of purpose; our job is to tank so the real damage dealers can do real damage; and in numerical terms; the damage potential that WAR offers is so small that it might as well not even matter), and it's far less durable than a Paladin to the point of near uselessness.

You won't fight a warrior for long because he'll be killed in one or two hits at high level play.

[javid]

now you add in Bloodbath (25% absorbs dmg for 30 sec on a 90 sec recast (effective 60 sec recast) )
Thrill of Battle (there is your long recast 120min.. but 20% of MAX)
And the other stuff I first posted for 40% health boost for 15 sec time

[Morhdd]

It takes more time and more MP to refill the HP of someone with 8k HP who's taking 4k hits versus someone with 5k HP taking 2.5k hits. As long as the paladin has enough HP to survive two hits in a row, they will always be "better" since they take smaller hits consistently.

If the same attack consistently hits a warrior for 20-40% more damage than it hits a paladin for, any time a warrior doesn't have their 20% healing taken buff up they're flat out worse than a paladin. That's not even touching the fact that paladins have better defensive cooldowns.

You don't appear to understand what EHP is or why it's an important thing to know. You should really stop arguing math based on your feelings.

Edit: I spell correctly sometimes.

[javid]

here comes the ad hominems.....

"he doesn't think like I think;YOU just don't understand"

look guy... stop being personal.. it's a game we can disagree and not have to throw around " you don't appear to understand "

I already admit that paladin are the real dmg mitigators PER HIT

But are they the dmg mitigators per total time spent fighting

Total damage taken during a single fight= per hit counts X time spent fighting

And simply put... you're right it's easier to heal 2.5k HP than it is 5k HP.... but the healing isn't simple. Paladins have access to one healing boost. A healing boost of 30% for 20 sec on a 120 sec recast (effective 100 sec recast)

[javid]

You're just saying words buddy.. no numbers.. we can't get one shotted with 8k hp.... that's just not gonna happen guy... unless you are fighting naked maybe--even then you have inherent defense. Our Dmg out.. is negligible ??? That is also a lie.. WE but out some heavy stuff.

In purpose.... you're looking for clean clear cut roles. THIS GUY FIGHTS, THIS GUY HEALS, THIS GUY STANDS THERE AND GET AN ASS WHOPPIN'

it can be more complex AND still get the job done.


What matters is mitigation over TIME. Damaged taken during a BOSS fight, start to finish. While paladin can reduce each hit he takes you have to account for the time his party takes to finish that boss fight. Likewise War takes more dmg per HIT but also considering the TIME it takes to finish that same boss. THAT IS REAL MITIGATION CALCULATIONS

bring back those numbers and we'll talk

Paladin per hit(Low) X Total time getting hit(High)=??
Warrior per hit(high) X Total time getting hit(Low)=??

[Ondesvin]

THAT IS REAL MITIGATION CALCULATIONS

yea and yet another one that dont listen to us, Paladin and Warrior are within 5% of each other damages numbers but a paladin can and will not only have a better EHF then us they will only get better the harder the bosses hit, as it stands now, a 20k hp Warrior will still be nothing beside a 6k hp Paladin, and then two reasons for this is

1) bosses hit us to hard
2) healers cant heal us back up to full hp even with our own "uber heals"

so yes we might not get one shotte with 20k hp but the fight wont last long. what you keep saying is we have self heals, but 900 hp every 20 sec is not close to a boss who hits you for 1 time in Titan HM or Coil they hit you for 2k+


PS. what i dont get is how can you not se the fault in your own so called "logic"

[HiirNoivl]

yea and yet another one that dont listen to us, Paladin and Warrior are within 5% of each other damages numbers

I DPS about 3x more than PLD.

But then again, I'm not stacking VIT.

[Surfie]

I DPS about 3x more than PLD.

But then again, I'm not stacking VIT.

You do 300 DPS? So you out dps everyone in the game.

[HiirNoivl]

You do 300 DPS? So you out dps everyone in the game.

The Paladins I've seen DPS about 60. lol They spam the same combo over and over again for hate. about 140 DPS not counting Fracture DoTs. I had a Paladin practically drooling over my DPS and he was in AF +1 and I'm in level 70.

wait lol so you go for str. gear like armor and so on? what is you magic def. and physical def.? what is you parry at ohh and how much hp do you have when you tank lets say Titan HM or Coil? if we talk about the 30 stat you get as an option, that dont = 3x the damage of a paladin, but hey if you do that much damage you even out dps bard and monks, i think il call this BS and keep you assumtion for yourslef or show me a parse of you as tank, and the other dps numbers to and then show me a parse of a paladin as tank and the other dps damage numbers...

I go for both ViT and STR. VIT stacking I've decided is the wrong strategy. It's a Mana waster and a DPS killer, and WARs who stack Vit have sucky Self heals and can't stay up without cure bombs. I use a mix of VIT and STR accessories and do much better.

My magic and Physical DEF right now is plenty as my gear is Darklight or better. My parry is find since I use Fending Accessories. My HP when I tank Titan is 6990 without Thrill of Battle (plus food) Which is still more than PLD. I'm not talking about 30 STR, I'm talking about 20. I think 30 is flipping too far in the other direction.

You can call lies all you want. I'd like to see a PLD do a 20 min AK run or a 5 min Garuda run. Heck, I'd like to see a Vit Stacked WAR do that much. I did about 90-95 DPS on WAR for Garuda, now I do around 130-140. Same with Lizard Thing in AK.

It's not just a change in Stats. Flipping a couple of STRs doesn't add up to such a huge change. What changes when you don't stack VIT is your manner of game play, your efforts to keep DPSing (and self healing) as much as possible.

I might go back to a bit more VIT later on when I have more of a feel for this DPS focused tanking, but for now, I'm pretty pleased with the results.

I'm sure that PLDs that do 100 DPS are not Vit stacked. The ones that I've played with ARE. That's why I do so much more damage than them. PLD is not DPS focused, but mitigation focused. Sentinal Rampart and Bulwark do 0 damage. But all of my mitigation ups damage and mitigates by means of that upped damage.

So it really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that when played properly there is a big difference between the DPS numbers of WAR and PLD.