The current battle system mainly calculate everything from Your Rank vs Mob Rank

[SuzakuCMX]

Well at least VIT and MND have a noticeable effect early on. But after R30 or so, I'm guessing about 50 MND will give you as much MP as you will ever need and 60 VIT or so will give you as much HP as you need to survive between Cure/Sacrifice cooldowns.

[Physic]

so what do you think the difference in the game over all would be if they had no dlevel equations. What im getting at is, yall want change but ill tell you right now, you can distribute the dlevel formula to player stats or gear and monster stats and generate the exact same effects, so since its the effects you dont like, what exactly would you want to see happen in your perfect world of rpgs with levels and stats and gear.

for example right nowe my level 42 pug can hit a level 70 gobbue for 25 a hit, for a total of 50 a round. the gobbue hits me for 1400.
what would you expect a person wearing the right gear for that level to be able to do, and damage they can take from a mob that high
what effect would you expect a person in +3 gear to be like in a similar situation.

put down to a regular fight versus a mob 10 levels higher than you

what% of your hp should a mob do versus a normal player, an hq player.

since no one knows how stats work right now, lets speak in terms of output. that may actually be valuable to people programming things.

[SuzakuCMX]

so what do you think the difference in the game over all would be if they had no dlevel equations. What im getting at is, yall want change but ill tell you right now, you can distribute the dlevel formula to player stats or gear and monster stats and generate the exact same effects, so since its the effects you dont like, what exactly would you want to see happen in your perfect world of rpgs with levels and stats and gear.

Nobody said they wanted to remove the dLevel equation...

...if you change it so dLevel doesn't have such a large effect and make it so stats actually matter...

...well then we don't have an eye-candy (an ugly ass eye candy) window for stats that have a minimal effect on the game if they aren't VIT or MND.

[Kurokikaze]

You can't not have DLVL in the equation. It needs to be there. What needs to be done is that whatever multiplier or coefficient that makes it so that DLVL trumps everything, needs to be lowered.

Most modern game uses Player LVL vs Mob LVL in their damage calculations.

[Rydin]

oh no, don't get it confused... (delta)rank plays too much of a roll
I was saying thats because it is possible that your rank (or DRank) caps the delta(str-vit) and also the delta(Att-DEF) which would also explain why the attributes dont seem to work as much... especially in the higher levels...
And in that capacity it seems to indirectly affect the damage... I AGREE THAT dRank MATTERS WAY TOO MUCH
and I have never argued that it doesn't. I am just hypothesizing at it's actual place in the formula
If it is a direct damage modifier or just modifies the other stats that contribute to damage....
Which again WOULD EXPLAIN WHY ATTRIBUTES SEEM TO NOT MATTER as the Delta(Attribute) numbers are capped

[Reika]

Testing this on low rank monsters is an excelent way.

I am rank 50 thaumaturge. I equip a weathered scepter R1. I never put any stats into INT, so it is at base14 for me. I equip Will to power I and II, making my int 0. I equip scourge I and blizzard I:

Scourge I:
rank 1 star marmot = 2961
rank 2 star marmot = 2909
rank 3 star marmot = 2896, 2744
rank 1 Bumble beetle = 2198, 2247
rank 2 Bumble beetle = 2159, 2464, 2273, 2269
rank 3 Bumble beetle = 2016
rank 6 copper coblyn = 1095
rank 8 copper coblyn = 1024

blizzard I
rank 1 Bumble beetle = 1969
rank 1 star marmot = 2351, 3113
rank 3 star marmot = 2168

Enough of that.... have you at any time when you were rank 1 with a rank 1 weapon and minimal stats, done over 2000 damage to a monster above your rank with a single attack. No.

oh yea. Phantom dart:

R1 Bumble beetle = 831
R1 star marmot = 1318

I sure dont remember doing that much damage in my r1-10 days with my silly weathered scepter..

if your rank didnt determine at all how much damage you were going to do, i would still see less than 20 damage per hit.

If you are asking "But reika, if you equip your R43 scepter, doesnt your damage go up?"
why yes the damage does go up, but the point is, I am doing buttloads of damage to these creatures with 0 int, and a r1 weapon

[Kurokikaze]

^ people are gonna argue.

BUT WHERES THE PROOF AND THE MAFFS?!

You know, cause they would actually understand the math.

[Nuru]

^ people are gonna argue.

BUT WHERES THE PROOF AND THE MAFFS?!

You know, cause they would actually understand the math.

I can agree with your post and Reika's, not even needing to think of an argument because its simply a no-brainer. Nobody really wants to test anything for themselves whether it be fear of being wrong, or they just cant admit that they have tested and they were wrong.

If they really wanted the maffs, they'd go out and test for their damn selves, and come back with results whether or not it proves that they are right.

[Physic]

no one was questioning dlevels effect versus low level mobs, I was questioning two things
If dlevel negates gear/stats
and how much does dlevel effect things in the range that you would be expected to attack them basically from -5 to+2o levels
then, how effective are your stats in this range.

I dont think any one really cares how much they can own a rabbit, or how much dmg a level 99 mob does to them at level 50

but beyond the discussion of dlevels effect in those cases, since we have no formulas, it would probably be better to discuss what type of effect you expect being well geared to have for your level because that is quantifiable.

[Kurokikaze]

no one was questioning dlevels effect versus low level mobs, I was questioning two things
If dlevel negates gear/stats

Reika... just fucking demonstrated that... omg.

I dont think any one really cares how much they can own a rabbit, or how much dmg a level 99 mob does to them at level 50

This just proves to me that you weren't even serious about this discussion at all.