YOSHI FIX THE DANG GIL ISSUE THAT IS KILLING OUR PLAYERS!!!

[Brolleun-Hunter]

The consensus of the entitled seems to be level a crafting profession, rely on the transferring of hands, lean on the daily leve allowance, and find a "niche." The problem is end game isn't generating enough gil (obviously gil is being generated once the quests have dried up) so players are forced to seek alternative means to progress in their play style--economics aside--and all of which lead to appeals of popularity (fallacy) that those who don't want to play their way (crafting) have no excuse to complain about the deficit dungeons, FATES, TRIALS, or 8 mans are putting them in. Shame they can't understand the fundamentals of a multi-media online game: to play with other individuals in a unique experience and enjoyable fashion (I stress enjoyable).

Final Fantasy XIV ARR has not been marketed, advertised, or even promoted as a sim-city, minecraft, or economic experience. Crafting is simply a part of the game play: a caveat, tool, or mechanic to the fantasy experience. No were did Square Enix say to the consumer they'd be embroiled in a broken economy, and forced to amass as much wealth as possible in order to experience the fantasy aspect of their game. Final Fantasy has never been about crafting, personal wealth, or even economics. Final Fantasy has been about the story, the characters, and fighting fantastical creatures.

If players can not enjoy the fantasy aspects of the (that they are paying for as well) game marketed to them, and must progress in skinner like mechanics or outside of their ideas of entertainment, then the game will begin to bleed subscribers, and the less players we have the less gil (period) transferring hands. The first month of an MMO is always lively and full of fresh new faces until the vainer runs off and the problems of the game begin to surface. I want to believe those who are adamant about no gil issues existing are simply using fallacies of generalization, false dilemmas, argument from ignorance, rhetoric, and anecdote are just poor attempts at scamming fellow players, and not their actual beliefs; but I don't think this is the case.

Reality: when the players actually start feeling like their performing a "labor" (work) instead of "playing" (entertainment) a game our community is going to have issues of population along with gil. The bottom line is this: the players who want to experience the dungeons, mob slaying, and raiding should not be forced to take part in mechanics that have nothing to do with combat (what they enjoy). No one can generate enough money at end game doing FATES, DUNGEONS, or Battle Leves to cover the costs of repairs. Players are speaking from experience, so we have a clear case of denial, ignorance, and plain stupidity running rampant in this thread and game.

To make matters worse players are arguing against the use of features included in the game (apart of the experience): teleportation, dungeons, wearing and using items earned through play and time; which basically says two things about those having these thoughts and those swallowing these thoughts: "nucking" retards. I never thought I would see arguments telling individuals how they are allowed to play the game, and sure people can argue semantics all they like on how best to play, but this amount of arrogance going hand-in-hand with entitlement is borderline fascism.

TL;DR: This is what the whole argument boils down to: you aren't allowed to be an adventurer to earn a living, so you will be a craftsmen to make money, when the real issue is the fundamental systems in place are broken. The OP is right: if we don't want to see players bleed off in droves an economic fix is needed.

[Rebort]

The consensus of the entitled seems to be level a crafting profession, rely on the transferring of hands, lean on the daily leve allowance, and find a "niche." The problem is end game isn't generating enough gil (obviously gil is being generated once the quests have dried up) so players are forced to seek alternative means to progress in their play style--economics aside--and all of which lead to appeals of popularity (fallacy) that those who don't want to play their way (crafting) have no excuse to complain about the deficit dungeons, FATES, TRIALS, or 8 mans are putting them in.

Only looking at endgame ignores all players not at endgame. There is not a separate economy for endgame. If the issue is economic deflation and not personal wealth accumulation, then you are ignoring half the equation.

[Brolleun-Hunter]

Only looking at endgame ignores all players not at endgame. There is not a separate economy for endgame. If the issue is economic deflation and not personal wealth accumulation, then you are ignoring half the equation.

Fair enough, their isn't enough gil generation period outside of quests and stories. I should have made that distinction.

[Rebort]

Fair enough, their isn't enough gil generation period outside of quests and stories. I should have made that distinction.

This may or may not be true, I can't prove it one way or the other and neither can you. Reducing repair cost is not proof. This could merely be quality of life polish on a new game. (One of many possible interpretations.) I think we understand each other. To be clear, you are not arguing (as many others are) that there is a severe threat of deflation once the game matures and more people are at endgame?

[Brolleun-Hunter]

This may or may not be true, I can't prove it one way or the other and neither can you. Reducing repair cost is not proof. This could merely be quality of life polish on a new game. (One of many possible interpretations.) I think we understand each other. To be clear, you are not arguing (as many others are) that there is a severe threat of deflation once the game matures and more people are at endgame?

My experience has lead me to believe an issue exists for individuals who wish to be a battle adventurer. Currently end game battle craft leves do not generate enough gil to cover repair costs, and the higher the item level the worse the issue gets.

In Mor Dhona one battle leve at 45 plus a 4 level boost will net between 450 to 500 gil, and tack on a bonus between 100 to 150 gil. The community is roughly looking at a 650 gil generation from leves. With the 60% reduction my current gear AF gear set, with quest accessories, costs about 500 gil to repair from a dungeon run. Now add in the factor I have to also fight for that gil in battle leves, and any action performed in battle causes wear and tear, so I'm looking at a further 50 to 100 gil repair bill. At most I'm netting a 50 gil return on my efforts, and I have as of yet to get a full ilevel 70 set (Dark Light). The higher the ilevel the higher the expenses. The quality of life adjustments weren't nearly enough, and more a band aid.

The very action SE took to reduce repair costs is in fact an acknowledgement an economic issue exists; unfortunately the figures were off, and the community still will have an issue of having to resort to other means to generate gil outside of combat, dungeons, and raids. By no means are these forms easy, timely, or anything resembling a hand out, and when a player is being shafted for the combat entertainment everyone has a real issue at hand. Players should never be forced to shift paradigms to partake in the experience.

[Feathery]

-snip-

All your concerns would be easily solved by picking up a craft and doing tradecraft leves. Alternatively if you must play a DoW then equip some trash gear for your battlecraft leves.

[Flarestar]

All your concerns would be easily solved by picking up a craft and doing tradecraft leves. Alternatively if you must play a DoW then equip some trash gear for your battlecraft leves.

So your response is effectively that he should spend a great deal of time doing an activity he has no interest in (crafting + harvesting), or put on crappy gear as a workaround for the actual problem?

The number of people in this thread that completely fail to grasp even the basics of macroeconomics and player engagement is staggering.

[Artamie]

The very action SE took to reduce repair costs is in fact an acknowledgement an economic issue exists; unfortunately the figures were off, and the community still will have an issue of having to resort to other means to generate gil outside of combat, dungeons, and raids.

I am very suspicious about this. As I've said before the repair problem seems to be one which limits a person's ability to continuously run dungeons, a non-traditional version of the lockout timer if you will. I feel like the way they fixed the repair issue was kind of a diversion. The fact they "fixed" repair but also fixed the ability to speed run seems to send the message that we were progressing through the game too quickly. After all the next set of content comes out around November or so I hear? That's still more than a month and a half away and this content is only suppose to breach the gap between the current dungeons and The Binding Coils of Bahamut. If everyone was walking around in i90 gear what would be the point of being around for the upcoming update when the gear you get from that would be vastly inferior?

[Deatheye]

Fair enough, their isn't enough gil generation period outside of quests and stories. I should have made that distinction.

True, but what about if all the Players reach endgame? You can't really argue that there always be enough new Players, no MMORPG ever didn't have a lowering amount of People joining the game.

Also how do you propose this works for Players that find crafting and gathering boring? Most of them will leave if they are forced to do something that for them holds no fun.
If Crafter produce stuff and the Dungeon runners can't afford it cause they Need all there gil for repairs, how should crafter sell there stuff to those Players?
How should gatherers sell there stuff to crafters if crafters can't sell there stuff?

Let's just asumme for a Moment that every Player would start to do gathering and crafting, why should any gatherer or crafter still sell anything if everyone can gather and craft everything themself? Would make the hole trading System useless. And personally for me it would take the fun part in crafting away. CAuse I like the Idea that I make stuff that other Players Need.

I agree we can't really proof if there is more Money coming in or going out, but I think the proofs that there is a Problem for People that want to do the dungeons is there. Everyone can just lvl to 50, get some gear, do some dungeons and check the repair cost and how much time they Need to invest to other stuff to get that Money back, check how much damage there gear takes during that activity and how much Money that allready takes away.

What you are saying that lowering the reapir cost yould just be a Quality of live could be a possability but I think it's highly unlikly. Cause if there woudn't be a Problem that would mean SE just now on purpose made a System Change that will cause Inflation, just for a bit of short term Quality Change... doesn't seem a very Logical joice kinda?