For all you warrior tanks out there... end game we are not viable.

[gigi_frana]

I hear there is a healing job that has some nice % dmg reduction buffs. And some shields to boost your health pools too.
Is that true?

[Anilogas]

All you clowns crunching all these numbers. go tank first boss of coil with 2 warriors and tell me how it works out.

this isnt another debate topic warrior vs paladin. this is to let you know, going into coil in full darklight / and 1 AF2 gear, it is extremely hard and not reliable.

[Kitru]

as a conclusion, WAR's Defiance grants similar survivability as Shield Oath and Defiance certainly isn't "inferior"

So do you just not understand math? I see you trying very hard, but you're doing it entirely wrong, especially since you're comparing end hp total rather than hp percentage. 20% damage reduction is the effective equivalent of a 25% increase in max hp *and* incoming healing because it's a smaller quantity of damage acting upon a standard quantity of hp and incoming healing.

You point out that a Warrior would be at 5450 with 5 stacks and a PAL at 5000. You completely miss the fact that this means that the PAL is still at full health whereas the WAR short 550. The numbers you're providing as evidence that stuff is balanced actually proves the exact *opposite*. Of course, this is predicated upon you actually understanding what you're attempting to do here, which you don't seem be to able to do.

Here's something to pound the point home. Let's take your 400 incoming damage per second and 320 incoming healing per second. A PAL sees that as 320 incoming damage and 320 incoming healing. A WAR sees that as 400 incoming damage and 368 incoming healing. A PAL has that damage as explicitly neutral. A WAR sees that as a loss of 32 hp/sec.

As a conclusion, a WAR's Defiance does *not* provide similar survivability as Shield Oath. It is *explicitly* inferior. The only reason it wouldn't be obvious is if you simply suck at math.

[ReiszRie]

All you clowns crunching all these numbers. go tank first boss of coil with 2 warriors and tell me how it works out.

this isnt another debate topic warrior vs paladin. this is to let you know, going into coil in full darklight / AF2 gear, it is extremely hard and not reliable.

Coils are designed to be ran with CT gear, DL sets are insufficient for Coils and in such situations, the damage mitigation and defensive CDS of PLD works better.

[ReiszRie]

So do you just not understand math? I see you trying very hard, but you're doing it entirely wrong, especially since you're comparing end hp total rather than hp percentage. 20% damage reduction is the effective equivalent of a 25% increase in max hp *and* incoming healing because it's a smaller quantity of damage acting upon a standard quantity of hp and incoming healing.

You point out that a Warrior would be at 5450 with 5 stacks and a PAL at 5000. You completely miss the fact that this means that the PAL is still at full health whereas the WAR short 550. The numbers you're providing as evidence that stuff is balanced actually proves the exact *opposite*. Of course, this is predicated upon you actually understanding what you're attempting to do here, which you don't seem be to able to do.

Here's something to pound the point home. Let's take your 400 incoming damage per second and 320 incoming healing per second. A PAL sees that as 320 incoming damage and 320 incoming healing. A WAR sees that as 400 incoming damage and 368 incoming healing. A PAL has that damage as explicitly neutral. A WAR sees that as a loss of 32 hp/sec.

As a conclusion, a WAR's Defiance does *not* provide similar survivability as Shield Oath. It is *explicitly* inferior. The only reason it wouldn't be obvious is if you simply suck at math.

Wow, why go all personal and hurl insults? Its not as though your self worth depended on it.

We're here to discuss and share opinions, we're not here to suffer your insults.

[Kitru]

We're here to discuss and share opinions, we're not here to suffer your insults.

The only personal attack against you is pointing out that you can't do math, which you proved yourself. I'm simply asserting based upon evidence you provided. You put forth math that was *explicitly wrong*. You drew the exact *opposite* conclusion from it that you should have (or would have, had you actually understood what you were doing). When you bring math into it, you're not aiming to discuss opinion; you're attempting to evaluate mathematical fact and aren't equipped to actually do so (as evidenced by your performance here).

[ReiszRie]

The only personal attack against you is pointing out that you can't do math, which you proved yourself. I'm simply asserting based upon evidence you provided. You put forth math that was *explicitly wrong*. You drew the exact *opposite* conclusion from it that you should have (or would have, had you actually understood what you were doing). When you bring math into it, you're not aiming to discuss opinion; you're attempting to evaluate mathematical fact and aren't equipped to actually do so (as evidenced by your performance here).

As i had mentioned, it was a simple calculation. Even if I was wrong in my calculations, insulting me for it is still totally uncalled for.

Damage reduction is as what it is, damage reduction. Though you can construe it as a HP increase but that would mean it is purely translated as a HP increase (being able to take more raw damage than the HP indicated) and not a damage reduction AND HP increase as that would be stacking them, thus i don't understand how your claim that Shield Oath's 20% damage reduction equates to 20% more HP and 25% greater healing potency applies.

We all know how percentages work, in a drawn out battle, PLDs will have greater survivability due to how percentages stacks and that is what differentiates WARs from PLDs in the essence that PLDs are more suited for battles that are drawn out or battles that requires soaking up massive amounts of damage.

[Wangstrong]

It's really reaching the point of desperation for people still trying to argue that the two classes are balanced. Paladins are able to tank content that requires 10-15 more ilvl than people have and somehow this just means warriors will be just as good once they actually have that ilvl90 gear? Logic!

It's not even really an issue with the stances. If the main difference between the two tanks was the 20% mitigation vs. 25% HP, with one having block and the other decent DPS, things would probably be fine. It's the insane PLD tanking cooldowns to which WAR has nothing even slightly comparable. This is what makes one class vastly better than the other.

The WAR self-healing is also really lackluster. Bloodbath and Storm's Path heal for so little it basically makes no difference in tanking terms, and even Inner Beast is just 1k every 20 seconds -- usable but hardly a dealbreaker when mobs hit for that amount with auto attacks.

[HoroBoro]

So do you just not understand math? I see you trying very hard, but you're doing it entirely wrong, especially since you're comparing end hp total rather than hp percentage. 20% damage reduction is the effective equivalent of a 25% increase in max hp *and* incoming healing because it's a smaller quantity of damage acting upon a standard quantity of hp and incoming healing.

You point out that a Warrior would be at 5450 with 5 stacks and a PAL at 5000. You completely miss the fact that this means that the PAL is still at full health whereas the WAR short 550. The numbers you're providing as evidence that stuff is balanced actually proves the exact *opposite*. Of course, this is predicated upon you actually understanding what you're attempting to do here, which you don't seem be to able to do.

Here's something to pound the point home. Let's take your 400 incoming damage per second and 320 incoming healing per second. A PAL sees that as 320 incoming damage and 320 incoming healing. A WAR sees that as 400 incoming damage and 368 incoming healing. A PAL has that damage as explicitly neutral. A WAR sees that as a loss of 32 hp/sec.

As a conclusion, a WAR's Defiance does *not* provide similar survivability as Shield Oath. It is *explicitly* inferior. The only reason it wouldn't be obvious is if you simply suck at math.

This is purposely misleading. As you've done the math, no doubt you've calculated greater heals than damage as well. Lets say boss does 200 damage. Healer heals for 400. A PAL sees that as 160 damage, 400 healed. For a total of +240 healing. A WAR sees that as 200 damage 460 healing with a balance of +260 heals.

So over the course of 3 autos, a healer will have to heal a Pally twice, where the healer may only have to heal the Warrior 1 time.

A Warrior will experience higher highs and lower lows. If the healer crits often, Warrior will be able to soak up more heals because of his higher HP pool - allowing for less "overheal". Furthermore, The crits will mean more as per the calculation above.

It's a more chaotic approach. Depending on what you're fighting, what how geared your party is, and perhaps your outlook on life, that may be a good or bad thing. Also, a Pally who eats high damaging AOEs non-stop will be easier to heal then a Warrior who eats the same. Warrior will tank small amounts of consistent damage better. It is not *explicitly* inferior. It is just a different way of tanking - better for certain situations.

Unless, of course, you think the job of a healer is to simply sit in place and spam cure on you all day. Then, yea - Pally would probably be better.

[TirionCrey]

I fully expect a fully geared endgame WAR to have 9999 HP after food and other buffs. I'm in level 70 gear and I reach over 8k.

With Thrill of Battle prolly...sorry Hiir...I saw your posts regarding Warrior all over the place and you're just spreading bullshit all over the place. Either you are a troll, or you're just a person that should be avoided in general...