Warrior is OP! Paladin is OP! Make one tank class and be done with it....

[khunceited]

In World of Warcraft, I can't heal, gun down things from range, or learn how to cast fireballs at a boss all on one character. I mean I guess you could be complaining about how a Paladin could be a healer then be a tank or dps, but how is that any different from FFXIV?

if anything you have more options in FFXIV

to be fair WoW has 2 other classes that can fill up any roles
monks: melee dps, tank, heals
druids: melee dps, magic/range dps, tank, heals

not disagreeing w/ you but I can see why Cyan thinks that about Blizzard

[Sephirah]

I don't get what you're trying to say.

In World of Warcraft, I can't heal, gun down things from range, or learn how to cast fireballs at a boss all on one character. I mean I guess you could be complaining about how a Paladin could be a healer then be a tank or dps, but how is that any different from FFXIV?

if anything you have more options in FFXIV

What are you talking about? In FFXIV, pld can tank, tank, or tank. This is exactly NOT like WoW. Which is what we're trying to say. It is BAD that you can do anything regardless of class, that is exactly what we DON'T want to happen here. If that's what you want, then go play WoW.

This is NOT a game where each class can be exchanged for another, and it shouldn't be. The classes are designed to do different things and be be better/worse at certain things.

[khunceited]

If you think "balance" means that a war/pld should be able to do the exact same thing regardless of the fight/situation/party make-up, then you don't know what balance is.

i totally agree with this variety isn't always a bad thing

[Delorean]

What are you talking about? In FFXIV, pld can tank, tank, or tank. This is exactly NOT like WoW.

You can level up another class. Switching your class in FFXIV is just like switching your specialization in World of Warcraft.

Like say, for example... if you want to cry about how warriors are bad and you cant run amdapor keep because of how unplayable you might perceive them to be, you can just level GLA and CNJ and use the same gear you were using for MRD/WAR.

i mean just because you have to level specializations in this game doesn't mean that you don't have the option to

[Sephirah]

You can level up another class. Switching your class in FFXIV is just like switching your specialization in World of Warcraft.

Switching specs in WoW and switching classes in FFXVI are nothing alike. If on WoW you are a paladin and decide you wanna switch from tanking to healing and you had to logout to switch to your healer character that you lvled up completely seperately, sure, then they would be the same.

[BadRNG]

I love games that have defined roles. If you want to do x, you need y. If you think "balance" means that a war/pld should be able to do the exact same thing regardless of the fight/situation/party make-up, then you don't know what balance is.

And the paladin and warrior have the same defined role. Tank. If you think balance means one class is inferior to another, despite sharing the same role, then you don't know what balance is either. Variety is not an excuse for poor design.

What on earth are the people talking about WoW going on about? This isn't one role trying to become another, this is a tank trying to be on equal ground with the class of the same role. At this point I'm sure someone will want to bring up the main/off tank idea, but the developers have never said that themselves, and it's not even true anyway. What makes warriors such better offtanks exactly? Extra aoe aggro? Aggro is simply not an issue for a skilled player of either class.

[BadRNG]

To be clear, I'm not suggesting paladins are overpowered, or warriors or useless, that kind of hyperbole doesn't help anyone. But thus far we have had several tanks who are doing endgame content attest to the fact there is some sort of balance issue, one that needs to be addressed. So far I have not seen anyone who disagrees with this either have experienced such content themselves or even begin to offer a coherent argument, unless "that's the way it is, get over it" is now considered an argument.

[Sephirah]

And the paladin and warrior have the same defined role. Tank.

At this point I'm sure someone will want to bring up the main/off tank idea, but the developers have never said that themselves, and it's not even true anyway. What makes warriors such better offtanks exactly? Extra aoe aggro? Aggro is simply not an issue for a skilled player of either class.

Not true, Yoshi-P has mentioned in several interviews that the warrior/marauder is designed to be exactly what it sounds like, a barbarian if you will. They are both tanks yes, but they are tanks that are good at different things. This is a team game, people need to stop worrying about which tank is 10% more effective than the other and think about how they work together.

They SHOULD NOT be interchangeable.

[BadRNG]

Except none of that is a confirmation of the distribution of roles you talk about, only flavor for the classes mechanics. You also seemed to have completely ignored the second half of the post you quoted. Let's say warriors just are better at different things, what are these different things? What exactly are they getting in exchange for their tanking inferiority? I've seen you bring up this tired mantra many times in other threads, so maybe I'll use it here, what in your mind makes a warrior worth taking over a paladin?

They should be interchangeable as far as you should never be put in a situation where the group questions the viability of that class for it's role. Yoshi himself has mentioned he doesn't like the idea of a single class being required, or at least massively preferred, over another.

[Kitru]

Not true, Yoshi-P has mentioned in several interviews that the warrior/marauder is designed to be exactly what it sounds like, a barbarian if you will.

Firstly, I'd like to see a link to one of those interviews. Secondly, I'd like to see *any* interview where the actual innate balance state of the two jobs was being discussed such that one is *intended* to be inferior to the other at their intended role.

"Different" is not the same as "intentionally imbalanced". In pretty much every case I've ever seen, "different" is used to describe the *manner* in which the class operates rather than the end point. Balance is based upon the end point and differentiation is in how you get there. As long as WARs continue to have a contrasting CD suite and rely on self-healing rather than blocking, they'll be different. Claiming that they're *supposed* to be worse tanks because they're barbarians rather than knights is simply arbitrarily choosing to assign your own preconceived notions of those terms rather than adapting those to a gaming environment. "Barbarian" and "knight" are thematic constructs, not mechanical ones. They refer to the aesthetic, not the practical.