Changes I'd like to see for MRD/WAR

[Warin]

Agree with most of what Ruminate is saying, good stuff.

Warriors having to cross spec into taunt instead of another defensive CD is BS though ;P

Only being able to interrupt every 30s is also BS.

[Alish]

Taunts are a necessary evil; and Provoke, for its long cooldown, provides very, very little benefit or enmity for the effort.

I have a feeling you fail to understand the way provoke works. Provoke only raises your enmity to the current highest enmity holder+1, so you should NEVER use this skill unless someone pulls threat from you.

Provoke + shield lob or tomahawk is usually enough to peel from the person you're provoking off of, and from there a basic rotation SHOULD secure the hate and allow you to figure out what you want to do with threat management from there.

Heres an example, say main tank dies for what ever reason and someone off tanks it while your healer is getting a resurrection on you. The only thing on your mind as soon as you get up from raise is getting back into the fight and tanking that boss as soon as possible. Instead of wasting a lot of time having to rebuild that enmity, provoke will allow you to get back to where you left off and allow you to get back to doing your job THAT much faster.

Its also off GCD and has an insane amount of range, I fail to see what is wrong with this skill.

[Hachiko]

Enhanced Maim: This skill is amazing from 48-49, as it lets you get in a second Butcher's Block combo at maximum efficiency. At level 50 when you get Storn's Path, it loses its usefulness because you basically want to keep that up also, and doing so means enhanced Maim is completely pointless.

Vengeance: Needs some defensive benefit (heal or bonus parry would be great). Right now it's in the awkward place of being a really weird offensive CD which only works when you're tanking. Even a TP regen effect would move it from junk to useful.

Steel Cyclone: It's not going to be worth it to drop your Fury stacks for a decent power AOE skill. As it is it's never worth using this over Inner Beast. Maybe have it only consume 1 stack of vengenace?

Not even sure what I would do with holmgang. Does it even work on large bosses?

[Arukai]

Unfortunately, the problem is DPS tends to not stop. Provoke doesn't account for that. I think you perhaps misunderstood what I meant.

Provoke needs a little MORE on the firm aggro thing; trusting DPS to stop attacking a target that's chasing after then is like asking a ranged DPS to run to the tank when they get aggro; this stuff is MMO 101, but evidently a lot of people skipped class that day. The end result, for me anyway, tends to be DPS running away and blowing more cooldowns, making it more complicated. Provoke, really, should be a taunt. It's off the GCD but it has a long cooldown as well. If it was 15sec or so, I'd actually think the Enmity +1 thing was kind of nice. At 40sec, I want something MORE to it. Hence the suggestions I made; it's not that provoke is bad, it's that in practice making it work efficiently and effectively is a team effort. And team effort is often sorely lacking in random groups in particular.

to be continued...

[Arukai]

There's nothing WRONG with Provoke; it's a nice base to work with. But it's just not quite fleshed out fully yet. As I said, we're now past lvl 20; we're all tanking harder dungeons now, and DPS and tanks are min-maxing the best they can. This means some abilities are a bit too strong; and others need a little work - welcome to a launch MMO! Woo!

Provoke just needs tinkering; made more efficient (especially in certain groups and fates). It's not about going easy; but 40sec is a long time to wait too. Either the cooldown needs cutting in half, or it needs increasing with a more tangible benefit to using it.

Either way, nice as it is, it's just not quite there yet. Easier for me to rotate a combo and overpower/flash, hoping/insisting DPS attacks the marked target... and even then, truth is, you can take a horse to water but you can't always make it drink.

*sigh*

[Quor]

Wow, lots of great feedback here folks.

I don't have time to comment on them all, so I'll just say I'm thrilled with the response so far. I also believe WAR is in a pretty good place overall, with a few outliers that need tweaking. So keep it comin' folks!

[hola]

provoke is not a MRD skill, so STOP please.

[Kitru]

provoke is not a MRD skill, so STOP please.

It's one of the options for an additional ability, so it's effectively a WAR/MAR ability. That's one of the wonky things about the was FFXIV was designed: just because it's not part of your class doesn't mean it's not one of your abilities and some classes get a lot more out of their additionals than other classes do (WAR is a good example, compared to PAL).

As to whether Provoke needs fixing, I like the current threat game. It's actually a challenge unlike so many other games out there. Improving Provoke would make the threat game simpler and, if improved too much, turn it into a complete joke. As it stands, the only times you'd need anything like it is for tank swap mechanics (which could *still* be done by forcing tanks to pay attention to each others' threat and preventing one from outpacing the other) and for fight recovery after dying in combat and getting a rez. Unless they add said tank swap mechanics (wherein WAR could still feasibly be considered to have Provoke as it stands now), it's really just a minor benefit. Personally, I only have it as a placeholder until such time that I get Awareness and Mantra.

[Duelle]

Improving Provoke would make the threat game simpler and, if improved too much, turn it into a complete joke. As it stands, the only times you'd need anything like it is for tank swap mechanics (which could *still* be done by forcing tanks to pay attention to each others' threat and preventing one from outpacing the other) and for fight recovery after dying in combat and getting a rez.

Barring mechanics that require taunts, they're there for emergencies. Taunts are also part of the standard tank kit because a tank having a way to regain threat without the offending DPS dying is a good thing.

As for the second sentence there, it'd work only if you made every boss with a tank swap similar to Gorthak the Impaler (swap tanks after they've been impaled 5 times). Which means you can't have bosses where the targets have to be swapped and kept apart, or where the bosses are stationary and literally juggle the tanks.

[Audard]

Reduce DMG Penalty on Defiance from 20% > %10
Remove Holmung and attach it to Steel Cyclone
Brutal Swing NEEDS TO BE SAME AS PLD... please
Reduce Foresight and Bloodbath to 30 secs and increase Foresight to 35%
Change Unchained to the following "Gain the Ability Unchained which ignores Dmg Penalty of Defience for 1 min. Can not rebuild Unchained until the effect wears off"
Something like that or simply remove it cause its pretty pointless