Which gameplay features actually have "mass appeal" ?

[Gramul]

The game needs to be fun.

That's...vague.

[Ava]

I want to be able to log on for 2 hrs, log off, and feel like I just accomplished something in that 2 hrs. Instances are a good solution to this, but I absolutely loved campaign in XI and think that would be an even better option. But at this point it's hard to complain about new stuff. And I think that the majority of gamers feel this way. Most people don't just pick 1 game and play that game exclusively. Most people like to play a lot of different games and when an MMO becomes so time consuming with tedious, dull tasks people label as "challenging" (when really they're just endurance tests), they don't appeal to "the masses".

NPC quests are more just a standard for MMORPGs, every game has them, so why not? It works for all of the successful MMOs and it's one of those features that people just outright expect, therefor I think they're essential. Even everyone's beloved FFXI had them, only difference was the UI was terrible and didn't label them.

[Ceons]

Make boring stuff quick, fast and efficient to not get bored and add fun content that can be challenging and epic.
Memorable stuff to do with people and lots of stuff to achieve/unlock.

[Chezen]

You know more than 50% of MMO players (now a days) don't want a challenge, they want to enter the game get the best items without working for it. Be able to gloat to their friends they have XYZ item etc.

If this is actually true, it negates half of your statement. But then, I have seen very few people actually say this.

Challenge is subjective, along with sense of fun. Not everyone wants to grit their teeth all the way through their playtime. For an mmo to have mass appeal, it will have varying degrees of challenge in it, with comparative rewards for the level.

[AuctionGirl]

If this is actually true, it negates half of your statement. But then, I have seen very few people actually say this.

Challenge is subjective, along with sense of fun. Not everyone wants to grit their teeth all the way through their playtime. For an mmo to have mass appeal, it will have varying degrees of challenge in it, with comparative rewards for the level.

I have to agree with you somewhat... what I mean by challenging doesn't mean time consuming at all. There needs to be fun stuff ALL THE WAY to the end, and even more fun stuff AT THE END. You see the problem is... there are no goals, nothing really to feel accomplished, nothing to keep you stuck to the game. You cant make a game too easy for MMO, you will be ending that MMO quickly if its too easy... People get bored quickly and that is why things have to constantly change in a game. If fights took 1-2 minutes each, and you were forced to group, some might have more enjoyment doing parties. If you are playing an MMO to feel accomplished without working towards those accomplishments, then you need to go back to FPS games. Those are quick accomplishments. MMO's are for people who want to be mentally challenged with strategy and understand that sometimes investment of time/effort will get you there quicker.

[Chezen]

I have to agree with you somewhat... what I mean by challenging doesn't mean time consuming at all. There needs to be fun stuff ALL THE WAY to the end, and even more fun stuff AT THE END. You see the problem is... there are no goals, nothing really to feel accomplished, nothing to keep you stuck to the game. You cant make a game too easy for MMO, you will be ending that MMO quickly if its too easy... People get bored quickly and that is why things have to constantly change in a game. If fights took 1-2 minutes each, and you were forced to group, some might have more enjoyment doing parties. If you are playing an MMO to feel accomplished without working towards those accomplishments, then you need to go back to FPS games. Those are quick accomplishments. MMO's are for people who want to be mentally challenged with strategy and understand that sometimes investment of time/effort will get you there quicker.

I do see what you are saying, but I don't think that's completely true. If people enjoy, really enjoy, what they are doing, they will do it more than once. How many times do people ride the same roller coaster, or see the same movie? Are they doing that for the reward at the end, or the fun during?

Working really hard at something for several minutes or more might feel accomplishing, but there's less chance you'd want to do it again (Of course, that's subjective too). Especially if your sole reason for doing it was for the reward. If you simply enjoy the fight, or whatever else the content it is, then you have a larger chance of wanting to do it again.

This is not to say that a sense of accomplishment isn't important in a game, but a game that can get people to want to do the same content over and over, I think that would be a successful game, mmo or console.

[AuctionGirl]

You cant tell me that if the game changes constantly and there was always a challenge... Wouldn't be interesting? Wouldn't it keep you attached to the game wanting to figure out the next "puzzle" or trying to be the first one to do the next big thing? How about if mobs didnt have such a simple attack pattern, but adjusted difficulty by how many members, strategy used and/or weapons/class types etc... Yes this is more work for SE, but more work usually equals more challenge and more enjoyment.

The reason why people keep playing FPS games is because the battle/tactics aren't the same every time.
The reason why people keep playing RTS games is because the battle/tactics aren't the same every time.

So why would an Fantasy MMO not be the same thing? Battles/Tactics need to change constantly, there needs to be more challenges ahead. There needs to be caps and roadblocks preventing you from getting these challenges without working to get there. (this is why to grind) Lets face it... grinding is always work, but if you know when you get to X, you get to be able to do Y, and Y is fun... but then once you finish Y a few times... you grind towards the new X and then you can do Z... this needs to repeat indefinitely. This keeps new goals always coming in, new challenges.

Also another thing, Battle strategy should be different every fight you have... Mobs should not have a simple "Attack", "Attack", "Special Skill", "Attack", "Attack" etc... very predictable... you know exactly how to fight this every time and can plan ahead. You need mobs to link with others, more aggro, challenging strategies, maybe mobs get more defense and HP if you attack them with a larger party, maybe if you have 6 archers attacking it.. it gets some Piercing buffs making archers not as strong towards them... We need more "puzzles" with content, fighting mobs etc... Lets reference FFXI for a moment here... When you were partying at ~ rank 10-15 area in Valkurm Dunes or another Area... The battles lasted at least 45 seconds or longer and that was even with a good party. You looked forward to trying to kill as many as fast as possible for the exp chain bonus, and the mobs weren't as "simple" as almost any mob in FFXIV is.

[Chezen]

I didn't say it wouldn't be interesting, I just said it's not necessarily true that all people would get bored of it. Monopoly hasn't changed for 50 years (or whatever). People still play it. What you or I or someone else finds boring, can be very fun to someone else.

I personally don't care for extreme mechanic tactics myself, although some for variety is good. Once you learn what to do to avoid the mechanic, it's just a timing issue. I see them more as gimics than true test of skill. You study the book, you know how to beat it.

I have a healer style play, and I prefer monsters that keep me having to constantly and quickly adjust my tactics, while near on the brink of disaster the whole time. Because of this, I can find enjoyment from the same type of monster consistently, if they are programed right. Ones that throw spikey damage are particularly fun. This works for me both soloing and in party play, as I switch from healing to support to mild dps constantly(in a group I'm familiar with, not pugs so much).

As for grinding/road blocks, I like certain ones, like rep grind. But I completely understand why someone might not have that kind of patience or time. What I haven't liked so much in the game so far, is how long it takes to get from point A to Point B. Sometimes it seems like all I'm doing is running.

But what I was saying about the challenge/road blocks, is that it's not necessarily fun to the masses. If there's one thing I have learned, most people don't like being on the verge of death all the time. There are days I don't either. Occassionally, it's fun to just look at a mon and have it fall over, because it's the only thing in life that will that day.

[AuctionGirl]

monopoly is different every time you play it.. why cause you are competing against luck (roll of the dice, and players roll of the dice) your strategy has to change every time you play. When you fight a marmot and it goes atk, atk, skill, atk, atk, skill and its a repeat of the same thing 10000 times over and over.. that's not a challenge... at least not the 1000th time you kill it.

Road blocks are needed, but not too large between content. FFXI did this very well, where you changed camps every 3-5 ranks usually or changed the mob you were grinding on constantly... this made battles not as bad, because the mobs got harder and/or new challenges. Right now in XIV... there isnt much to just go grind on (required to change places) because its just not there. You also arent challenged to save up/gather your next equipment because you can buy the highest one (even though you are semi-gimped) and just rank up to it. This needs to stop, you must make people set goals and change the challenge constantly. You must TEASE/TAUNT players on what they can get, or what unknown they will get when they reach X, Y or Z on the path. Road blocks cannot be 50 ranks before you get something or do something cool, but maybe 3-5 ranks is probably a good portion, and once a person invests enough time into their character they are more like going to keep playing.

[Anty]

+3 @AuctionGirl