Combat still too slow. We need a shorter Global Cooldown!

[Farore]

For me, combat is definitely too slow. For all of you people saying it's just twitchy and makes it lack any kind of thought, you're living behind rose-tinted goggles.

When you have nearly three seconds between each ability use, you have more than enough time to think thrice over what kind of ability you're going to use next, you're in position long before it's even ready to use, and you're already planning the next move. When every move does nearly the same thing, it gets very boring, very fast. In short, it makes the game way too easy to play. There's no sense of actually fighting, rather than watching a movie of one.

Now, when you have 1 - 1.5 second CD on a melee class (spell casters will have different), you are actively thinking, not passively thinking. You have to know what you're going to do well ahead of time, and you have to be ready to act on it right then and there. There's no standing around waiting for your next attack to be available, you're actively attacking your enemy with everything in your arsenal. In PvP, if you have 10 seconds to react to something, it's child's play. If you have 3-5 seconds to react, it's going to hurt a lot more, and you're actually going to be thinking against your enemy and playing against their strategy. To offset the huge increase in TP cost for abilities, we would have to either lower the cost of many abilities, or increase the rate at which TP regenerates, which could be a benefit of Skill Speed. I feel that would make combat flow much smoother and better.

Now spell casters, since they're not moving around as much as a melee is, they'd have a slightly longer GCD, maybe 2 seconds. With cast times and all that, this is really nothing, but it prevents them from loading someone up with DoT effects immediately, and from range. I feel this is fair, since melee has to worry about positioning and all that. You're still moving and playing a bit faster, but it still feels like a spell caster would; slow, strong attacks.

Now I know you're going to say, "Oh but what sets Monks apart then?" Well, how about we change Greased Lightning to be one ability, rather than a stack of three, but make it have the effectiveness of about 2.5 stacks. So the Monk is still fighting faster than the other classes, but now they really are fast, rather than what I'd call normal.

I feel as though combat as a whole needs a major overhaul though. Every class feels like a different flavor of the same thing. We all use TP, we all have abilities that do the same thing, we all have the same positioning... etc. It's just dull, flat and boring. Making each class unique and interesting would definitely help to set combat up a notch. Rather than having every class use an ability from the flank to increase damage, why not make certain skill combos do the same, while other combos do other things. Make the skills themselves feel more unique. Right now, every (melee) class has a: back attack, flank attack (which increases damage) and other similar moves, and they all feel the same. Can you tell me you feel unique as a Lancer or Dragoon using Heavy Thrust, compared to a Pugilist / Monk using Twin Snakes? I sure can't tell the difference, aside from Lancer being able to use the move on will. Give different classes different resources to generate / spend. For example, Monks make use of Chakra according to the description, but I don't see a single move that does. Let Monks build Chakra as they fight, and be able to spend it on powerful moves. Lancers and Dragoons can build up some kind of dragon-related resource, and use that to do special moves like jumping and falling attacks, so on. The classes, right now, are homogenized beyond recognition, and the only difference is their weapon of choice.

Right now, I feel like combat is the weakest part of this game. I love crafting, I love the story, I love the music, the immersion, the environment - everything. But I hate the combat. It is slow beyond anything I feel is reasonable, it is easier than even WoW (and that's saying something), and it's just tasteless. Something needs to be done about it.

I feel that if SE took and adopted the variation and speed of WoW, and combined it with the strategic gameplay of their combat, then this game would be the best there is, and I've no doubt it would last for years to come. As of now, however, I don't see anyone beyond the fanboys and white knights playing for more than a few months. I can already tell I'm getting bored of the combat. Maybe this game just isn't for me, but I have a suspicion that people agree with me. The combat makes this game easy beyond easy, and I've never felt like I was fighting to survive.

That's my two (or several) cents.

[M4Fade]

I feel as though combat as a whole needs a major overhaul though. Every class feels like a different flavor of the same thing. We all use TP, we all have abilities that do the same thing, we all have the same positioning... etc. It's just dull, flat and boring. Making each class unique and interesting would definitely help to set combat up a notch. Rather than having every class use an ability from the flank to increase damage, why not make certain skill combos do the same, while other combos do other things. Make the skills themselves feel more unique. Right now, every (melee) class has a: back attack, flank attack (which increases damage) and other similar moves, and they all feel the same. Can you tell me you feel unique as a Lancer or Dragoon using Heavy Thrust, compared to a Pugilist / Monk using Twin Snakes? I sure can't tell the difference, aside from Lancer being able to use the move on will. Give different classes different resources to generate / spend. For example, Monks make use of Chakra according to the description, but I don't see a single move that does. Let Monks build Chakra as they fight, and be able to spend it on powerful moves. Lancers and Dragoons can build up some kind of dragon-related resource, and use that to do special moves like jumping and falling attacks, so on. The classes, right now, are homogenized beyond recognition, and the only difference is their weapon of choice..

You're right about this. Yoshida can't be happy with how bland or similar the abilities are. No way. The battle system doesn't exactly need a re-work.. the developers need to take another look at the abilities as making them more interesting or "different' would go a long way to making this whole battle system way more enjoyable.

[Kaedan94]

When you have nearly three seconds between each spell use...

You might want to actually play the game and learn how it works before making horribly inaccurate statements. You have 0.5 seconds between each spell use. 2 seconds to cast the spell, during which time the GCD is counting down. And that's reduced when you start using Haste gear.

[casker]

For me, combat is definitely too slow. For all of you people saying it's just twitchy and makes it lack any kind of thought, you're living behind rose-tinted goggles.

Depends on the game IMO. I wouldn't necessarily say WoW is twitchy but I would call GW2 twitchy because of the dominance of chalk-outlined circle spam and the dodge button used to nullify all damage at will. A 1.5s GCD is not inherently bad or twitchy, but if applied to ARR in its current form would just result in a mess.

Now, when you have 1 - 1.5 second CD on a melee class (spell casters will have different), you are actively thinking, not passively thinking. You have to know what you're going to do well ahead of time, and you have to be ready to act on it right then and there.

I'll have to disagree with this. In most 1.5s GCD games your decision making is largely determined by your cooldown rotation. Not to say theres no decision making but its usually something like a rotation with a few decisions here and there. Like a shadow priest setting up his dots and then mindflaying and then using psychic scream when he has to or whatever. Decision making has less to do with the actual length of the global cooldown. Pardon the analogy, I know its not exactly the same, but maybe think chess vs. speedchess. Decision making is apparent in both. What matters is the underlying structure of the game. (and actually, speed chess does become twitchy! lol)

And I think there is a delicate balance here. You are dangerously close to actually describing what is twitchy combat but were careful to emphasize decision making. But I don't think decision making exists just because a lower cooldown exists. To follow the analogy, decision making doesn't exist in speedchess just because its fast. It exists because of the "gameplay," lol. Granted though the speed alters it and changes the dynamic.

Looking at GW2...I played a thief. Sure, I have the capacity to "make decisions" at a 1-1.5s pace (whatever the length was in that game) but because of the gameplay design, it didn't ever matter what I did because the strategy was always shoot, and dodge roll out of circles and that was pretty much it. I could complete all content I partook in (until giving up the game, I did a fair bit of level 80 content too btw) just doing those two things.

The longer cooldown actually stresses decision making more, because if you screw up you have to live with your mistake for a longer period. The opportunity cost for each ability is higher. Whereas in something like WoW, if I want to disarm an opponent, I can attack right after. Thats fine. It's still a decision. But in ARR if I did something like that, maybe it would count for that 2.5 interval, my "turn" if you will. It's a different kind of strategy.

And this is all operating on the assumption that you are doing an ability only every 2.5s. Not true anyway. And if that's how you're playing, you're doing it wrong. Literally. If you are doing everything correct the game can actually be faster than other games. If you're a mage you weave in instant casts, and if you're melee you weave in your various steroids like internal release or whatever. If you're a monk you do things at 2s with 1 intervals. Meaning you can pop 5 abilities in 5 seconds. Or 7 in 7 seconds. Etc. Depending on what you're doing.

shoulder tackle > bootshine > internal release > twin snakes > steel peak > snap punch > howling fist

there is a random 7 attack combo you can do in 7 seconds with 3x GL

Now I know you're going to say, "Oh but what sets Monks apart then?" Well, how about we change Greased Lightning to be one ability, rather than a stack of three, but make it have the effectiveness of about 2.5 stacks. So the Monk is still fighting faster than the other classes, but now they really are fast, rather than what I'd call normal.

I don't think your proposed change here actually does anything to change what sets a monk apart. You're just lowering the skill cap by making it easier to get the full benefit of greased lightning. Keeping up GL is right now one of the things that separates the good monks from the scrub monks.

For example, Monks make use of Chakra according to the description, but I don't see a single move that does. Let Monks build Chakra as they fight, and be able to spend it on powerful moves. Lancers and Dragoons can build up some kind of dragon-related resource, and use that to do special moves like jumping and falling attacks, so on. The classes, right now, are homogenized beyond recognition, and the only difference is their weapon of choice.

Now these are good ideas. But actually this kind of different use of resource management does exist with Thaumaturge. It's just still managed under mana. It just changes the dynamic of how mana is spent. But even then I'd have to question how much it'd really change things, because it actually does exist and yet you're still criticizing it. I could say the same sorts of things about WoW and how damage classes feel homogenized, rogue is like fury warrior is like enhance shammy is like cat druid etc. Just slightly different ways of doing melee damage. In general though I agree that the game needs more interesting abilities, a part of the problem with that is they are mostly sanctioned off for job abilities which you only get at 30+.

I'm also wondering if you are actually a 25 pugilist because I agree its boring, especially through the 20's, but the potential of the class really opens up once you get rockbreaker and demolish at 30 IMO.