I like the market wards

[Cairdeas]

Honestly, I like the simplicity of Auction Houses over how Market Wards work.

I agree that the current system we have in place works, but I have a hard time seeing why anyone would be against simplifying the situation. I understand how the OP can sort of immerse himself/herself in the fact that he is hiring a retainer to sell his/her items, but that is not something many players take into account. For the RP minded, I can see how the system would be neat.

The thing is, the current system is a hassle. Player have to zone in and out of different areas, use the search feature multiple times to mark npcs, and search through tons of different npcs to find the best deals.

Why go through all that trouble when you could just talk to an Auctioneer that is fencing goods from across all the different cities / areas? Use one menu to search for the different items you want, and purchase the auctions you think are going for a fair price. Visit your mailbox after making your purchases, and your done!

In the end, an Auction House would make things better on a few different levels. Its faster, simpler, and it would tie all the different cities together without causing a crowding issue with retainers.

Now id like to turn the question back on you if you dont mind - What about an Auction System dont you like? Why do you prefer the Market Wards over Auction Houses?

Blind and Time bidding which are the only things that make an Auction House an Auction House. All the fixes you mentioned do not make a market system an auction house. They just simplify and improve the convenience of the current market system and as such can be implemented to the current Market Wards without ever implementing an Auction House.

[RinL]

Whats so bad about browsing for the best price when you get the lowest 10 prices in the search window, you look at the name of the retainer with the lowest price and the ward go to that retainer and bam your done.

I agree looking for multiple items can be a chore, but as people have already said in other forums, whats so much quicker about placing a bid for an item, waiting for the auction to end just to find you were outbit, then bid on another auction, wait for it to end then pick it up?

The alternative is ffxi's style which is blind bidding where you can be there for ages bidding 10k, 15k, 20k, 25k, 30k, then thinking that its too much so all you can do is wait around hoping another comes up or go for an alternative with the same process where as MWs show the actual prices.

The main problem is going to be how easy it is to undercut, just put your items up for a lower price which will eventually crash the market, this is the only issue that needs looking at with the MWs.

Im not so great at quoting individual sections on this one, so bear with my copy paste >.<

Whats so bad about browsing for the best price when you get the lowest 10 prices in the search window, you look at the name of the retainer with the lowest price and the ward go to that retainer and bam your done.

Im not sure how this works out for you, but currently when I search for an item in Uldah there are generally many up for sale. Sure you can flag each individual retainer and look through all the red stars scattered throughout the hall, but you will also have to look through all the retainers in the other wards as well.

This would also include keeping track of the names of the people and their individual prices, that way you could go back through and purchase from low to high to get the best deal. Its just a lot more time/hassle than I for one would like to take when an Auction system could make things go a whole lot faster

I agree looking for multiple items can be a chore, but as people have already said in other forums, whats so much quicker about placing a bid for an item, waiting for the auction to end just to find you were outbit, then bid on another auction, wait for it to end then pick it up?

On this part id like to just comment that Auction Houses also have a Buyout feature, and that I for one *very* rarely use the bid option. In the Auction House I mentioned (in this thread, or the other AH related on on the front page), players will set a bid / buyout price for each auction they create. Players can then choose to bid and wait if they'd like to try for a lower price, or just buy the item out immediately.

Honestly, most of the time I see auctions on games like wow the buyout / bid prices are the same, and that encourages players to simply buy the item(s) immediately.

The alternative is ffxi's style which is blind bidding where you can be there for ages bidding 10k, 15k, 20k, 25k, 30k, then thinking that its too much so all you can do is wait around hoping another comes up or go for an alternative with the same process where as MWs show the actual prices.

I didnt get too far in with Final Fantasy 11, so sadly I cant remember how the AH system worked there sorry I cant comment on this one!

The main problem is going to be how easy it is to undercut, just put your items up for a lower price which will eventually crash the market, this is the only issue that needs looking at with the MWs.

On a final note, I dont think this is an issue at all. Sure you will see people undercutting the lowest price, but thats how markets work. Prices will eventually hit a stable level and you will see that items will sell at a pretty consistent level.

The market will never 'crash', it will simply even out. Will you still see those 90,000 gil sales for items that cost 20,000 gil to craft? Probably not. But you wont see them go below the cost to craft them in most cases, unless you get lucky and find a deal

Basically what im trying to say is, you may indeed see a drop in price for the more common items but that is normal. You cant expect items to remain at a super high level once players can see what is used to make the item and how much they cost.

Hopefully that works well, and sorry for the long reply >.< you covered quite a bit in your post!

[RinL]

Blind and Time bidding which are the only things that make an Auction House an Auction House. All the fixes you mentioned do not make a market system an auction house. They just simplify and improve the convenience of the current market system and as such can be implemented to the current Market Wards without ever implementing an Auction House.

Excellent, then it seems we agree on my notes for improvement?

Call it what you will, auction house or improved market wards. Simply introducing the features I have mentioned would make things easier on every player using the wards.

Can you think of any reasons we should not make things easier on players trying to buy and sell items? Any drawbacks that would hurt the game or its players?

Im just trying to get a handle on why so many people seem to have such a problem with making the types of changes I mentioned earlier

[Delsus]

Im not sure how this works out for you, but currently when I search for an item in Uldah there are generally many up for sale. Sure you can flag each individual retainer and look through all the red stars scattered throughout the hall, but you will also have to look through all the retainers in the other wards as well.

This would also include keeping track of the names of the people and their individual prices, that way you could go back through and purchase from low to high to get the best deal. Its just a lot more time/hassle than I for one would like to take when an Auction system could make things go a whole lot faster

The only time this is a problem is when you are looking for crafting materials/ammo/consumables and the wards can be patched to help this problem by allowing you to specify how much of what you need then it shows the lowest prices for that amount, (if its from differant retainers it could attempt to find ones in the same wards) this is just a simple calculator type progam put in and group retainers names if needed.

On this part id like to just comment that Auction Houses also have a Buyout feature, and that I for one *very* rarely use the bid option. In the Auction House I mentioned (in this thread, or the other AH related on on the front page), players will set a bid / buyout price for each auction they create. Players can then choose to bid and wait if they'd like to try for a lower price, or just buy the item out immediately.

Honestly, most of the time I see auctions on games like wow the buyout / bid prices are the same, and that encourages players to simply buy the item(s) immediately.

So you dont actually want an actuion house, you want a system to buy immidiatly, which can again be patched to buy at the enterance to the MWs if SE want to.

I didnt get too far in with Final Fantasy 11, so sadly I cant remember how the AH system worked there sorry I cant comment on this one!

FFXI's action house was blind bidding, you look at the price history and usually bid slightly below those prices and slowly increase when you dont get it for the best deal, also the item selling for the lowest price is sold first so you can have an item up for days even weeks before it sells just from undercutters

On a final note, I dont think this is an issue at all. Sure you will see people undercutting the lowest price, but thats how markets work. Prices will eventually hit a stable level and you will see that items will sell at a pretty consistent level.

The market will never 'crash', it will simply even out. Will you still see those 90,000 gil sales for items that cost 20,000 gil to craft? Probably not. But you wont see them go below the cost to craft them in most cases, unless you get lucky and find a deal

Basically what im trying to say is, you may indeed see a drop in price for the more common items but that is normal. You cant expect items to remain at a super high level once players can see what is used to make the item and how much they cost.

It is still prime for undercutting because theres no guarentee that things will sell, so you will put items up for less than others, although it may stabilise it could get more like FFXI which was 99% of NQ items sell below the cost to make them and HQ items cost alot more to cover the losses from any NQ synths (this would be if SE implements a system to show HQ items in the search)

[RinL]

Oh man, we have a debate going and quotes are flying wild! xD Ill try to post my thoughts as clear as I can, forgive me if this comes out jumbled at all.

Im not sure how this works out for you, but currently when I search for an item in Uldah there are generally many up for sale. Sure you can flag each individual retainer and look through all the red stars scattered throughout the hall, but you will also have to look through all the retainers in the other wards as well.

This would also include keeping track of the names of the people and their individual prices, that way you could go back through and purchase from low to high to get the best deal. Its just a lot more time/hassle than I for one would like to take when an Auction system could make things go a whole lot faster

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Your Reply,

The only time this is a problem is when you are looking for crafting materials/ammo/consumables and the wards can be patched to help this problem by allowing you to specify how much of what you need then it shows the lowest prices for that amount, (if its from differant retainers it could attempt to find ones in the same wards) this is just a simple calculator type progam put in and group retainers names if needed.

I have no programming / coding experience to go off of, but it seems like this would have a lot of 'moving parts' if you catch my drift. I still feel that having a single page to search from that had all the sales from the different cities would be the best way to implement a Auction House / ward type system.

Call it what you will, but anything that allows what I have described in my previous posts would be a welcome addition to the game in my eyes.

On this part id like to just comment that Auction Houses also have a Buyout feature, and that I for one *very* rarely use the bid option. In the Auction House I mentioned (in this thread, or the other AH related on on the front page), players will set a bid / buyout price for each auction they create. Players can then choose to bid and wait if they'd like to try for a lower price, or just buy the item out immediately.

Honestly, most of the time I see auctions on games like wow the buyout / bid prices are the same, and that encourages players to simply buy the item(s) immediately.

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Your Reply,

So you dont actually want an actuion house, you want a system to buy immidiatly, which can again be patched to buy at the enterance to the MWs if SE want to.

Again, call it what you will so long as the system turns out similar to what I listed in my posting history. If purchasing the items from the main entrance screen that comes up when you go to the wards floats your boat, then thats fine.

I guess I always envisioned an NPC / setting that would help to keep immersion going. Buying something from a screen that pops up when you go near a zone boundary sounded a bit bland to me compared to entering a non instanced hall and talking with a Master Auctioneer

I didnt get too far in with Final Fantasy 11, so sadly I cant remember how the AH system worked there sorry I cant comment on this one!

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Your Reply,

FFXI's action house was blind bidding, you look at the price history and usually bid slightly below those prices and slowly increase when you dont get it for the best deal, also the item selling for the lowest price is sold first so you can have an item up for days even weeks before it sells just from undercutters

Thanks for the information on that one Delsus, I can see where people might be against that type of system if that is what an Auction House is to you. The whole 'blind' aspect of the situation turns me off quite a bit as well, and I assure you thats not what I would like to see in the game.

On a final note, I dont think this [UNDERCUTTING] is an issue at all. Sure you will see people undercutting the lowest price, but thats how markets work. Prices will eventually hit a stable level and you will see that items will sell at a pretty consistent level.

The market will never 'crash', it will simply even out. Will you still see those 90,000 gil sales for items that cost 20,000 gil to craft? Probably not. But you wont see them go below the cost to craft them in most cases, unless you get lucky and find a deal

Basically what im trying to say is, you may indeed see a drop in price for the more common items but that is normal. You cant expect items to remain at a super high level once players can see what is used to make the item and how much they cost.

----

Your Reply,

It is still prime for undercutting because theres no guarentee that things will sell, so you will put items up for less than others, although it may stabilise it could get more like FFXI which was 99% of NQ items sell below the cost to make them and HQ items cost alot more to cover the losses from any NQ synths (this would be if SE implements a system to show HQ items in the search)

I agree, undercutting is indeed something you will see with any type of market. Even in the wards right now, undercutting happens when people post. I know I make sure to check for the items I am selling before I list, that way I can post at a lower amount than what my competition is selling for. Its how the economy works, and I cant really elaborate more than that.

Boy, this ones getting long! Next time I may directly reply to your text instead of showing the history - I just think its easier to keep the conversation in mind by linking it all again.

Thanks for the debate!

[Moth]

I don't mind the wards either. Now that there is that global search, it's just fine.

:'D your sig<333 lul

On another note, I like the market wards too. But I would not object to the global search feature being a bit more like an AH, for example, listing the prices of previous items instead of the prices just vanishing once the item is sold. Some type of history would be nice.

[RinL]

:'D your sig<333 lul

On another note, I like the market wards too. But I would not object to the global search feature being a bit more like an AH, for example, listing the prices of previous items instead of the prices just vanishing once the item is sold. Some type of history would be nice.

Just out of curiosity, would what a price history help?

This is more of a curious question, from what I have recently read in other threads that seems like it was a big part of the 'blind bid' auction house of FF11, is that right? I didnt get to use that system at all, so I dont know much about it.

In my experience though, players eventually find a standard price on their own without a history. After time the market stabilizes and 'minimum prices' kind of fall in place. People know that x item will sell for around x price because thats what it is worth, or at least that is what I have seen on other games.

Assuming a 'blind auction' type situation was not introduced, is this something that would be needed?

[Moth]

Just out of curiosity, would what a price history help?

This is more of a curious question, from what I have recently read in other threads that seems like it was a big part of the 'blind bid' auction house of FF11, is that right? I didnt get to use that system at all, so I dont know much about it.

In my experience though, players eventually find a standard price on their own without a history. After time the market stabilizes and 'minimum prices' kind of fall in place. People know that x item will sell for around x price because thats what it is worth, or at least that is what I have seen on other games.

Assuming a 'blind auction' type situation was not introduced, is this something that would be needed?

I think it would help just to keep certain things, usually things that are not so common on the wards, at a somewhat steady price. For example, I buy and sell a lot of food ingredients, but since these are not commonly bought and sold (at least on my server) the prices fluctuate drastically. Sometimes people will sell them for like 2k, sometimes for 200. It just helps to have a history for this type of thing, so the prices remain steady. This normally dosen't happen with things like crystals and popular mats and such.

[Delsus]

ok sick of the quotes now lol so @RinL:

ammo/consumables/w/e else i said

all it needs to do is search the wards for the amount of an item retainers are selling, then calculate it to come to the number the player specified, then show the retainers that need to be visited to get said amount of an item shouldnt be too hard, the main part would be the calculator type extension for it.

for buying from an NPC

It would be easy to add one there but the items would still be taken from retainers, and to keep the MWs as MWs you can say you still need to go to your retainer to put an item up for sale, also you would still have the option of going into the wards to buy if you needed.

Undercutting

All I am worried about is that people will see x item for 100k, you sell for 99k and if that trend continues for people it will end up crashing the market of NQ items, and HQ items will be stupidly expencive like in FFXI to cover losses, but servers should be up now so imma play!!!

[RinL]

ammo/consumables/w/e else i said

all it needs to do is search the wards for the amount of an item retainers are selling, then calculate it to come to the number the player specified, then show the retainers that need to be visited to get said amount of an item shouldnt be too hard, the main part would be the calculator type extension for it.

See, that seems really complicated to me >.> I would rather search for the item im looking for, find all the postings available for said item and their prices, then purchase the items I want from there.

This all goes back to making things easier/more simple for the average player in my opinion. I am of the thought that if it does not harm anyone/thing, then making things as simple as possible can only help everyones gameplay.

Dont get me wrong, I dont think easy everything (endgame content, pvp, ect) is a good thing. But things like Auction House / Market Wards can be made simple without offending the hardcore or the casual

for buying from an NPC

It would be easy to add one there but the items would still be taken from retainers, and to keep the MWs as MWs you can say you still need to go to your retainer to put an item up for sale, also you would still have the option of going into the wards to buy if you needed.

This ones a bit hard, but I think it could work.

People selling things could still use their retainers, and the retainers would be hooked up to a Auction Hall / Auctioneer NPC / Whatever you want to call it.

People could then buy from one central location and still enjoy their retainers when they want to sell things. I guess you could still let players enter the wards on their own to browse as they would like, but I think that would be sort of cluttered imo. I think it could be confusing to players, and eventually you might not see much use of the less dominant type of search feature.

Undercutting

All I am worried about is that people will see x item for 100k, you sell for 99k and if that trend continues for people it will end up crashing the market of NQ items, and HQ items will be stupidly expencive like in FFXI to cover losses, but servers should be up now so imma play!!!

Undercutting will indeed happen, there is no way you will ever get around that. As I was saying earlier though, it should never fall below the cost of the materials used to create the end item. Once that happens a smart auctioneer will snipe the items and repost at an appropriate setting.

Then you have the times where all the auctions for x item are purchased, and someone comes up and randomly starts the process over. I know Moth mentioned a price history being put in along with any other changes, perhaps having one of those would help to keep prices stable? Along with the normal behavior of players who auction things that is.

Thanks for talking with me Delsus, and sorry for the quotes xD goodluck to you, and either way it turns out im sure the Dev team will take care of things. The game seems to be going in the right direction now, so I guess its just up to us to wait!