Please give Paladin access to Pugilist skill tree instead of Conjurer.

[Wilksha]

What I'd like to know is how PUG abilities would make PLD a better job? Second Wind? Maybe, but PUG is all about damage and does not complement the roll of PLD in their FF franchise. PLD's roll is to take hits and covering allies in a weakened position with their highest def rating from all other job/classes. They've always had access to lower tier white spells so taking it away to do at best more damage isn't really all that effective. From what I've gathered, healing spell generate a large amount of enimty. So much that when I did Sastasha I was tanking as I was building up enimty at crazy speed.
In FFXI PLD tanking by a decent PLD involved throwing out extra cures to make sure they kept hate as cure spell had the lowest recast of the major enimty building skills. Flash 45 sec, Provoke 30 secs, Cures 1-4 seconds. Your job as a PLD is to keep the enemies attention and cure spells are very good at doing this. (Too well IMO if I'm tanking on WHM cause I'm curing too much)

[Rubieus]

Second Wind and Feather Foot

vs

Raise (OOC)
Cure (Works like second wind, uses mp instead of TP)
Stone Skin (Great to have in an emergency)
I'd rather lose Mrd for Pug

[ReiszRie]

Well I'll offer a bit of advice that you can use both in the subject of this topic and in life in general.
"Before complaining about things you do not have it is often best to take a full inventory of the things you do." Often you'll find that what you think is missing is not really that big of an issue in the bigger scope of things. And this is one of those times.

Right now PLD and WAR for the most part are very balanced right now. And from a game design perspective giving PLD access to PGL will tip that balance. Right now PLD's small cure is good enough. If I am taking 500 damage a hit and only healing for 200hp. That is not that good. If I have 20% damage mitigation... Well now I'm taking 400 damage to my 200hp heal. If I have 40% mitigation, I'm taking 300 to my 200 hp heal. So when you look at PLD's healing by itself... yeah its small potatoes... but when you look at PLD's healing in combination with their damage mitigation well that small heal can go a LONG way.

In a raid, you'll also have to ask your WHM to stop Curing so you could use your "damage mitigation" heals

Honestly, it is inane and redundant, no PLD will start healing themselves in the middle of a raid fight, in 1.0, PLDs don't even actively use Holy Succor due to the need to co-ordinate heals whilst losing enmity generation and suffering from animation/GCD all for a wee bit of heals.

No, just no.

[Eldarion18]

Second Wind and Feather Foot

vs

Raise (OOC)
Cure (Works like second wind, uses mp instead of TP)
Stone Skin (Great to have in an emergency)
I'd rather lose Mrd for Pug

It all comes down to the fact that current boss designs are hectic and requires a lot of dodging and moving as a tank. Tanks simply don't have the luxury of standing still to cast something that gives very little return as the Conjurer skills do for Paladin.

Second Wind = instant, heals for over twice as much as Cure 1. Great "oh crap" button. Costs neither MP nor TP.
Featherfoot = instant, additional damage mitigation
Internal Release = instant, additional damage/threat generation

vs

Raise = 8 second cast, costs mp, completely unusable in combat. Offers no advantage in boss fights whatsoever.
Cure = 2.5 second cast, costs mp, heals roughly 5% of your maximum hp.
Stoneskin = 3 second cast, costs mp, prevents damage equal to 10% of your maximum hp. This is the best of the 3 but still very situational. Takes too long to cast and requires being stationary for those "oh crap" situations.

[Kitfox]

From what I've gathered, healing spell generate a large amount of enimty.

This is simply untrue. 1 damage = 2 hp healed. Your Enmity combo and Flash are ALWAYS going to generate more hate than healing yourself, especially with such a low potency. That means everytime you cure yourself you're losing on hate and damage. In my opinion that undermines any utility CNJ abilities have for PLD, apart from raising someone after battle. The reason why PGL abilities are "better", so to speak, is that Second Wind and Featherfoot are off the GCD and don't use any resources. You can use them between your rotation for benefits, while using Cure or other CNJ abilities penalizes you in the enmity/damage department. I don't really care how it looks from the lore perspective, I'd rather have practical abilities.

[Vydos]

I’m guessing the entire reason for all of this is simply the following.

PLD -> Purely party based job. S-E attempting to force the player to actually rely on his party members. Besides…we still got potions. I use them in emergencies when I see that the healer is either busy/ too far / or not paying attention. (Which happened once at the final boss fight in copperbell mines)
GLD -> Everything else(mostly solo play)

PS: Completely unrelated but this topic should be in the "Classes & Jobs" section of the forum. Just saying.

[Reokotsae]

sadly paladins are already percieved as superior tanks to MRD's, If you gave them access to pugilist abilities you would take away MRD/WAR's only redeeming trait in this particular argument.


Instead I think they should tweak some of the cross class abilities to be a tad more useful to paladin. For example have some form of trait that gives a small chance on block to be able to cast cure instantly for an increased amount.

[JamesTiberius]

I don't think that PLD should lose conjurer in order to gain pugilist abilities, but the limited application of conjurer spells is aggravating. Nobody is saying that a PLD's cures need to be as effective as a WHM's, but they do need to be better than they are now. Currently, there's not much of a reason at all for a PLD to cast cure. It's a waste of MP and it just doesn't heal enough to be remotely useful. Even PLD in XI had access to Cure IV. It wasn't as good as a WHM's cure IV, but it generated loads of hate and could easily save you, or another party member. They simply need to give PLD access to different tiers of cure or increase their cure potency.

[ReiszRie]

sadly paladins are already percieved as superior tanks to MRD's, If you gave them access to pugilist abilities you would take away MRD/WAR's only redeeming trait in this particular argument.


Instead I think they should tweak some of the cross class abilities to be a tad more useful to paladin. For example have some form of trait that gives a small chance on block to be able to cast cure instantly for an increased amount.

Untrue, there are no conclusive statistics that shows PLD perceived as a superior tank over WAR, in fact, many prefers playing as a WAR tank as it is perceived as less tedium.

Currently as it stands, I have 0 use for CNJ's spells in a dungeon run or a boss fight.

[Arannon]

I'm with the guy that suggested giving paladins traits to boost their conjurer side. Like something that while stoneskin is up they get an additional mitigation boost, or a spikes effect, or an attack slow as long as the buff remains and they keep hitting the paladin. Their base cure also does a little heal over time action, or maybe it heals for a percentage of the next attack they take after being hit, turning your cure into a mitigation tool for anticipating those large blows. Make their protect provide autocover to all allies at like 15-20% when they're below 30% HP.

I'd like to see traits on other job's secondary/tertiary classes as well. Unique flavor for the other abilities they'll pick up thats different than the base class would get primary, giving just that much more variety in ability choices between classes.

Maybe if/when they raise the level cap would be a good time to add things like this.