So 1.0 owners have to start paying the monthly fee immediately?

[Abriael]

snippete

Never said that there aren't oddities, but there are several possible explanations for that.

What there's no explanation for would be calling the beta of one version a beta, and the beta of the other version a "second free trial", especially considering that in all previous communication the first "free trial" is a free gameplay period of the full game, not a beta.

What is very evident is that basically everyone that took Square Enix communication at face value interpreted that "free trial" as Square Enix always intended it, which is a free period of gameplay of the full game.

It's in almost every article about 2.0. Whenever you see people talking about it in the comments of blogs and websites you see people spreading the "good news" that everyone that had 1.0 will get at least one free month.

When they'll notice that this isn't the case, many won't be happy.

[Aldora]

Never said that there aren't oddities, but there are several possible explanations for that.

What there's no explanation for would be calling the beta of one version a beta, and the beta of the other version a "second free trial", especially considering that in all previous communication the first "free trial" is a free gameplay period of the full game, not a beta.

What is very evident is that basically everyone that took Square Enix communication at face value interpreted that "free trial" as Square Enix always intended it, which is a free period of gameplay of the full game.

It's in almost every article about 2.0. Whenever you see people talking about it in the comments of blogs and websites you see people spreading the "good news" that everyone that had 1.0 will get at least one free month.

When they'll notice that this isn't the case, many won't be happy.

You keep referring to a Beta like it's not "the full game" content wise. That does not necessarily have to be true. For instance, the last Phase of the 2.0 Beta (as it is scheduled now) should have all the content available which is scheduled for the official release. The difference here is that there is still room for (minor) tweaks and bugfixes for the official release. They are normally presented via an patch on the release day (since the game was printed and shipped in order for it to hit the shelves on the announced release date).

But, that's beside the point.

The original discussion here was the fact that Hvinire's post mentioned that only the players that purchased a new copy of the ARR Client would get the 30-day "Free trail" period while existing players would not. Let me ask you one thing:

We know that SE originally mentioned that the PC version would enter a free trail period when the Playstation 3 version was being tested. We also know that this is not mentioned in the current outline. On top of that we have Hvinire's post with their statement regarding the "free trail" period.

Considering that everyone with a Final Fantasy XIV Service Account (active or inactive) will have access to both the 3rd as well as the 4th Phase of the Beta (and thus with all scheduled content present in the 4th Phase), will it be a definite deal breaker if the 4th Beta Phase would take 2 to 4 weeks and not have a 30-day "Free Trail" given to them?

For those who played 1.0, aren't we already glad that SE managed to make 2.0, gave us the opportunity to support the game and help SE make the game better by supplying them with our thoughts and feedback? On top of that, there are players amongst us who have been classified as Legacy players with a permanent discount and free in-game item(s) that come along with it? On top of that, people who purchased the 1.0 CE version will get the in-game items from the 2.0 CE version. If i remember correctly, the existing players will get early access to the game, like the new players who will pre-order CE version of 2.0.

I honestly ask everyone, after all this, can we still be cross/unhappy/angry/furious/disappointed about not getting the 30-day free trail? It's not like SE is doing everything in their power to save game, right?

And last but not least, there is always the possibility that Hvinire made a mistake (with the translation) or didn't get all the facts. There is still the possibility that existing players will get a Free Trail as well.

But, truth be told, i don't mind if i don't get that free trail. I'm happy to pay for the game on the day of the release.

[Abriael]

You see a problem, I don't. Agree to disagree.

If you don't see a problem with giving people cause to think that they're getting something and not giving it, well, that's your opinion.

You keep referring to a Beta like it's not "the full game" content wise. That does not necessarily have to be true. For instance, the last Phase of the 2.0 Beta (as it is scheduled now) should have all the content available which is scheduled for the official release. The difference here is that there is still room for (minor) tweaks and bugfixes for the official release. They are normally presented via an patch on the release day (since the game was printed and shipped in order for it to hit the shelves on the announced release date).

As we already know, the beta won't include at the very least the whole summoner/arcanist part of the game's content. Yoshida himself stated that. We don't know if anything else will be missing.

But a beta is a beta, meaning that there'll still be bugs, server problems, and stuff to fix. It's not the best environment to ascertain the final quality of the game, and most definitely not what I'd use to advertise the game to those that already quit because its previous incarnation was poor. When you want to get people's trust back, you bring you A game. A beta isn't your A game.

We know that SE originally mentioned that the PC version would enter a free trail period when the Playstation 3 version was being tested. We also know that this is not mentioned in the current outline. On top of that we have Hvinire's post with their statement regarding the "free trail" period.

Considering that everyone with a Final Fantasy XIV Service Account (active or inactive) will have access to both the 3rd as well as the 4th Phase of the Beta (and thus with all scheduled content present in the 4th Phase), will it be a definite deal breaker if the 4th Beta Phase would take 2 to 4 weeks and not have a 30-day "Free Trail" given to them?

I can pretty much guarantee a lot of people are gonna be pissed, strengthened by the fact that there's already a lot of negativity on the game outside of its remaining community, for obvious reasons, this can easily become a deal breaker for many.

A "free trial" is perceived as a perk/freebie. A beta access isn't perceived by many as a freebie, as it's give and take. SE lets us play, and we do the testing for them.

People expecting a freebie and suddenly seeing themselves with something that isn't really a freebie, are gonna be naturally disappointed.

Is it a deal breaker for me? no. But I'm a fan. I've been hooked to the idea of ARR since when it wasn't even called ARR yet.

SE is facing the rather difficult task of getting back those that aren't fans anymore and are jaded about that game.

The 20-25k (personal estimate, don't quote me) people that remained til the end of the world are already in the bag. The 800k that quit, aren't quite in the bag. Putting a credit card barrier between them and the finished game is bound to turn away quite a good percentage of them, and I don't think that "screw them cheapos!" is the right attitude to take in order to facilitate the success of ARR.

[Duuude007]

If you don't see a problem with giving people cause to think that they're getting something and not giving it, well, that's your opinion.

If that were what I was actually thinking, I would tell you.

• You are asserting that 1.x people aren't getting free time to check out the game, unrelated to the 1 month subscription offered via ARR purchase.
• I am asserting that 1.x people are getting free time to check out the game, and that it is unrelated to the 1 month subscription offered via ARR purchase.

Agree to disagree.

[Abriael]

• You think that 1.x people aren't getting free time to check out the game, unrelated to the 1 month subscription offered via preorder.
• I am saying that 1.x people are getting free time to check out the game, and that it is unrelated to the 1 month subscription offered via preorder.

They're getting "free time" (Which isn't really free, betas are a give and take affair, gameplay in exchange of testing and feedback, which is why no one calls betas "free trial") on something that isn't the complete/fully polished version of the game.

Many of the 1.0 people are already jaded towards the game (on top of the fact that a LOT of them expect to receive game time as a freebie, because that's what SE's wording led them to expect). Would you seriously try to win someone's lost trust back with something that's anything less than fully polished/flashed out?

Don't know about you, but if I was Square Enix I'd bring my A game in order to win their trust back, and a beta isn't one's A game.

[Duuude007]

They're getting "free time" (Which isn't really free, betas are a give and take affair, gameplay in exchange of testing) on something that isn't the complete/fully polished version of the game.

Neither is a demo. Neither is a trial play on many games. There is a limit to how far or long you can go before you hit a pay wall.

[Abriael]

Neither is a demo. Neither is a trial play on many games. There is a limit to how far or long you can go before you hit a pay wall.

Demos and limited trials are parts of a game that are normally polished and repolished like diamonds in order to show it under the best light and to entice the customer to a purchase. That's not the case of any beta.

Most other games also don't have to bear the burden of the legacy of a disastrously failed predecessor. SE needs to go at the skeptics in full swing if they want to win them back.

I love how you are quoting from a document you haven't read and understood properly yourself

I'm obviously not the only one that read it like that, as that's the general perception of what that document means outside this small community. And even here, as for "95%", you may want to redo your math because it's direly incorrect.

I'm not the one that decided to use the definition "Beta" for the PS3 version and "Free Trial" for PC. If they both were intended to be betas, they should have both been called beta when they were mentioned on the same line of the same document. That's communication 101.

No one in the industry ever officially defines a beta "free trial", so those that interpreted "free trial" as an actual free trial, using the definition that Square Enix always used for "free trial", cannot be blamed.

[Aldora]

But a beta is a beta, meaning that there'll still be bugs, server problems, and stuff to fix. It's not the best environment to ascertain the final quality of the game, and most definitely not what I'd use to advertise the game to those that already quit because its previous incarnation was poor. When you want to get people's trust back, you bring you A game. A beta isn't your A game.

Well, sure. In a beta there are still bugs to be fixed. But, lets be honest. Even if the game is released, the game will still have bugs in them. No product on the market is bug free and will never be entirely bug free. Even though the 4th Phase is still part of the beta, it will be pretty close to the official release of the game. The risk of "reworking"/"overhauling" an existing feature is extremely risky "right before" the official release. Who know what game breaking bugs will be introduced because of it.

Therefore, during that phase, the working being done will mostly be tweaks or bug fixes. However, if a feature is in fact broken (resulting in game breaking experiences) and has to be fixed, the feature will either be temporary disabled until it is fixed or postponed until the next patch/update. SE mentioned that Arcanist and Summoner are on schedule for the release, but will most likely not make it for the 4th Beta Phase. That's a risky choice. Let's say the Arcanist doesn't make it to the Beta (which is the most likely scenario, even with the most certainty) and will be introduced during the release. The balancing of the Class and its Summoner Job will be done in-house only and not by the End User. Chances are that the Class will be overpowered when compared with their designated alternative classes. The Class/Job balance will have to be fixed/adjusted via a Patch or even an Update. We've seen before that 1 skill can even crash a server due to a bug. End Users (Players) are better at finding these types of bugs then the developers themselves, since developers simply cannot match the vast diversity of situations during their testing schedule, which their playerbase can cover during their play sessions.

I've talked too much about this... In short, yes... The game is in a Beta, but the quality of the game during the final beta phase will be pretty close to the quality of the game once it's been released. Those who are under the restrictions of the NDA cannot speak freely, but since you've written an article with permission of SE regarding the Beta so far, i think you can say that the current 2.0 Beta from it's core implementation is by far better then it's 1.0 predecessor.

I can pretty much guarantee a lot of people are gonna be pissed, strengthened by the fact that there's already a lot of negativity on the game outside of its remaining community, for obvious reasons, this can easily become a deal breaker for many.

A "free trial" is perceived as a perk/freebie. A beta access isn't perceived by many as a freebie, as it's give and take. SE lets us play, and we do the testing for them.

People expecting a freebie and suddenly seeing themselves with something that isn't really a freebie, are gonna be naturally disappointed.

Is it a deal breaker for me? no. But I'm a fan. I've been hooked to the idea of ARR since when it wasn't even called ARR yet.

SE is facing the rather difficult task of getting back those that aren't fans anymore and are jaded about that game.

The 20-25k (personal estimate, don't quote me) people that remained til the end of the world are already in the bag. The 800k that quit, aren't quite in the bag. Putting a credit card barrier between them and the finished game is bound to turn away quite a good percentage of them, and I don't think that "screw them cheapos!" is the right attitude to take in order to facilitate the success of ARR.

I'm a fan of the game and it's franchise as well and i'm most definitely not implying that you're not. I'm just here to speak my mind, share my opinions and form a civil discussion based on my experiences, knowledge and opinions. (^_^ ) I think we share a common goal there. (^_~ )

But, i honestly have to say that i'm bugged by your (personal) estimation regarding the remaining people who played till the end and the ones that have presumably quit the game.

Do you honestly believe that approximately 95% of the entire player quit the game, lost faith and never returned to the game? That is a rather grim perception/estimation of our player base...

Final Fantasy XI never had a playerbase that could match (for instance) WoW. We know that. I also believe that Final Fantasy XIV didn't have a lot of subscribers at launch and that a lot of people left during the first few months. But more then 90%? And never returned? I would find that hard to believe.

If i were to make an estimation, it would be more in the lines of 250k initial subscribers of which around 15 to 20% (let's say around 40k subscribers) remained after the first few months. I suspected that the player base slightly increased from 1.19 onward, to about 30% of the original player base. That would be around 70k subscribers across, how many servers did we have in 1.0? 10? That would be an average of 7k subscribers per server.

That would sound more reasonable in my opinion. But, like i said, that's my opinion.

You can say i have more faith in our player base. (^_~ )

A "free trial" is perceived as a perk/freebie. A beta access isn't perceived by many as a freebie, as it's give and take. SE lets us play, and we do the testing for them.

People expecting a freebie and suddenly seeing themselves with something that isn't really a freebie, are gonna be naturally disappointed.

A "Free trail" might be perceived as a perk/freebie to many, but let me quote this from my previous post:

For those who played 1.0, aren't we already glad that SE managed to make 2.0, gave us the opportunity to support the game and help SE make the game better by supplying them with our thoughts and feedback? On top of that, there are players amongst us who have been classified as Legacy players with a permanent discount and free in-game item(s) that come along with it? On top of that, people who purchased the 1.0 CE version will get the in-game items from the 2.0 CE version. If i remember correctly, the existing players will get early access to the game, like the new players who will pre-order CE version of 2.0.

It's not like they are not giving us freebie's, right? It may not be a "Free Trail", but nonetheless... What more can we ask from a company that has invested this much to save their game?

Do you remember that people were flooding the forums, saying that they wanted to be in the beta so that they can get an early hand-on? To them, getting access to the beta is like a "Free trail", because they can get to "play the game for free". It's not the same as having a 30 day "Free Trail", but to them the result is the same, they are able to play the game.

Don't you agree?

[Abriael]

snippete

There's no release of a MMORPG that doesn't include a considerable amount of fixes and rounds of polish compared to open beta. The only exception to this are MMOS that are simply localized, and not released anew. This isn't the case for ARR.

Considering the average quality of open betas, it's very likely that players *will* run in a lot more issues and problems than at release. That's not exactly the best pitch to do towards customers that are already jaded.

I never said that "approximately 95% of the entire player quit the game, lost faith and never returned to the game?". But yes, I would say it's pretty evident that that kind of percentage did leave. The servers during the last months were a desert, with 100-150 people online during peak hours.

What is the status of the "faith" of those that left, and if they ever intended to come back again, That I can't say, but it's very likely that a very large percentage of them is *very* jaded towards the game and Square Enix. FFXIV wasn't a pretty show, and a lot of people won't forget that easily.

As for the "giving us freebies", let's not be naive here. I'm very supportive of Yoshida, the team, and the awesome job they did so far, but Square Enix didn't remake A Realm Reborn to do us a favor. They remade A Realm Reborn to make money off it, and to revitalize a precious brand that has been hit hard by a series of bad business decisions. Brands are a company's most valuable assets, and a successful A Realm Reborn will be instrumental in restoring the value of the Final Fantasy brand.

Our interests happen to be aligned with SE's, but this doesn't mean that SE is doing this for us. They're doing it for the ultimate goal all corporations have, which is making cash There's nothing wrong with it, mind you. I'm a staunch supporter of companies making cash.

The people "flooding the forums" are still a vast minority compared to the 800,000 that purchased 1.0. SE's hardest task will be to gain the trust of the many that didn't care flooding the forums. It's doable, but they will have to bring their A game. Offering a free month of gameplay after release would simply give them better chances to lure back in more people, and that's what IMHO they should be focusing on.

PS: Thanks for disagreeing in a civil manner and without trying to miscounstrue/Misrepresent (too much) my arguments. Looks like it's become a rare commodity in parts of this forum, besides Nique's

[Aldora]

There's no release of a MMORPG that doesn't include a considerable amount of fixes and rounds of polish compared to open beta. The only exception to this are MMOS that are simply localized, and not released anew. This isn't the case for ARR.

Considering the average quality of open betas, it's very likely that players *will* run in a lot more issues and problems than at release. That's not exactly the best pitch to do towards customers that are already jaded.

Trying to win over people who have had a negative experience with 1.0 will be extremely hard. They have a certain idea and view about the game which will be tough to change. Especially in the current MMO scene. There are plenty of MMO's on the market and there will be at least of them which will suit your needs as a player. May it be WoW, Rift, Tera, SWOTR, GW2, or maybe a korean free-to-play MMO. SE has quite the task ahead of them to win people over.

Since a Beta should not be used as means to win people over, due to the fact that Game's during a beta are subject to change and will contain bugs (even though most people might never see them). You just need to find 1 critical or annoying bug, and your back at square 1.

But that goes for the release as well. Let's say, you've been able to play the Beta and you were loving it. Then, on the 27th of August, the game officially goes online and during the first 2 weeks you can't log in 9 out of 10 times because the lobby server could not handle the stress with so many people logging in at the same time. That could also be a game breaker for a player. It's immensely frustrating if you can't play the game you've bought and cannot play in the first few weeks due to log-in issues.

If you have a 30 day Free Trail and the game is being plagued with log-in issues in the first few weeks, then i think you can imagine what kind of storm will be rushing through the Lodestone Forums and the internet. (^_^; )

What is the status of the "faith" of those that left, and if they ever intended to come back again, That I can't say, but it's very likely that a very large percentage of them is *very* jaded towards the game and Square Enix. FFXIV wasn't a pretty show, and a lot of people won't forget that easily.

But, on the other hand, reviews like the ones you make which have a positive aura about them will also spark peoples interest. You should not underestimate the effect of reviews like the ones you write. (^_~ )

Reading reviews where the games in question get a good score, but also hearing good news from friends and family will affect a large part of the opinion people have about a game. Still, if they had a negative experience, it will still be hard to convince them otherwise unless they can experience it themselves. The question is, do they want to give it a try? And does the 30-day Free Trail for 1.0 players who've quit playing the game in its early days be enough to convince them?

As for the "giving us freebies", let's not be naive here. I'm very supportive of Yoshida, the team, and the awesome job they did so far, but Square Enix didn't remake A Realm Reborn to do us a favor. They remade A Realm Reborn to make money off it, and to revitalize a precious brand that has been hit hard by a series of bad business decisions. Brands are a company's most valuable assets, and a successful A Realm Reborn will be instrumental in restoring the value of the Final Fantasy brand.

Our interests happen to be aligned with SE's, but this doesn't mean that SE is doing this for us. They're doing it for the ultimate goal all corporations have, which is making cash There's nothing wrong with it, mind you. I'm a staunch supporter of companies making cash.

But of course! SE is a profit organisation with a sole purpose to make a profit. There is no question about that. Without profit, an organisation like SE cannot exist. But, in order to make a certain amount of profit, you have to attract customers. On that we agree. (^_^ )

There are several ways to attract customers for both fans of a franchise and new players. If you look at it objectively, "Freebie's" are never really free. They are means to attract people with "special items". I mean, the Onion Helmet looks like a freebie, but in reality you had to buy the CE edition of Final Fantasy XIV in order to get it.

And now with 2.0, if you want the Coeurl Mount and the Behemoth Barding, you have to buy the CE edition (if you are a new player). If you buy the game, you will get a 30-day Free Trail. But, you'll have to buy it in order to get it. (^_^ )

When it comes to attracting players who bought the 1.0 game and quit after the first few months, that's an entirely different ball-game.

The people "flooding the forums" are still a vast minority compared to the 800,000 that purchased 1.0. SE's hardest task will be to gain the trust of the many that didn't care flooding the forums. It's doable, but they will have to bring their A game. Offering a free month of gameplay after release would simply give them better chances to lure back in more people, and that's what IMHO they should be focusing on.

Of course. I know that only the minority of the player base actually visits the Official Forums or reads the articles on Lodestone. For example, there are players who never looked back at Lodestone to keep in touch regarding the latest news about the game. They never heard a word about the Legacy action, that you could get a Goobbue mount, or that 2.0 was being developed. Its due to other gaming sites, like yours that people who've quit the game can still read the latest updates regarding the game.

If they still don't read it, then the chances of them ever returning to the game are practically zero anyway.

PS: Thanks for disagreeing in a civil manner and without trying to miscounstrue/Misrepresent (too much) my arguments. Looks like it's become a rare commodity in parts of this forum, besides Nique's

You're welcome. (^_^ ) I'm here to discuss, talk and share idea's and opinions, while having fun in the process. Not to flame people. Flaming others opinions or calling them trolls never helps anyone. It will only create friction and an unpleasant environment.

The only thing i can ask anyone who visits and posts in these forums, be respectful towards others and they shall respect you. Did you think of a way to make the game better? Or did you see something you didn't like? Did you make a piece of fanart or write a fanfiction story? Maybe you had a funny brainfart... There's no shame in posting it here. Just keep it civil and respect the opinion of others (even if you don't agree to it). (^_^ )