[dev1033] Ideas for a Two-Tier Class System: Jobs on Top of Weapon Specializations

[Cairdeas]

The fact still stands though that they have 2 different weapon types each. Conj = Wand/Cane, Thaum = Staff/Scepter, hell if you look at the guns in the game we have Pistols and Rifles for Musketeer. Going with that train of thought you could add 2-handed swords to Gladiator easily. Even further than that you could just add more weapon types to a given class considering some already have more than one.

I'd rather Great Sword be implemented under a new Weapon Class. Single Handed Blades that are all slashing makes sense to be shared.

Two handed swords should be seperated because they act differently. So should Rapiers.

[Arcell]

I'd rather Great Sword be implemented under a new Weapon Class. Single Handed Blades that are all slashing makes sense to be shared.

Two handed swords should be seperated because they act differently. So should Rapiers.

Well that old Alpha data-mine had Fencer as a class which I would honestly love to see. You're right that greatswords act different, the only problem I foresee is us having like 50 classes by the end of a couple expansions.

[Cairdeas]

Well that old Alpha data-mine had Fencer as a class which I would honestly love to see. You're right that greatswords act different, the only problem I foresee is us having like 50 classes by the end of a couple expansions.

Not really.
I can forsee them using atleast these all by the first expansions which would cover most of the ones already present in XI.


Axes

Great Swords

Hand-to-Hand

Oriental Weapons

Polearms

Clubs and Hammer

Magical Focus Weapons (Staff, Wand Etc.)

Short Swords and Daggers

Rapiers

Bow

Cross Bow, Guns, Rifles

Entertainment Instruments

[northernsky]

You know we already have multiple weapons for certain classes, you don't need to add a base class to add a weapon.

Conjurer and Thaumaturge both have 1-handed staves/wands and 2-handed Canes/Scepters.

Gladiator has Swords as well as Daggers, which I believe really don't belong there but whatever. While they are similar in function they are decidedly 2 different weapon types.

Yes I agree.
My point was rather that eventually they will need to add more base classes to sustain the depth of the armory system over the course of time, not only new jobs on top of the existing weapon classes.

So I was not bringing new classes a a pretext to implement new weapons, they can already add new weapons to existing classes.
Rather, I was thinking about which base classes they could add, and what weapon could be associated with them.

[northernsky]

Well that old Alpha data-mine had Fencer as a class which I would honestly love to see. You're right that greatswords act different, the only problem I foresee is us having like 50 classes by the end of a couple expansions.

I can see that but right now they have 7 classes. Bringing that number to 10-12 in a future expansion then gradually to, say, 15-18 within a few years would not be out of mind IMO. I think Cairdeas came up with a good list of realistic groups of weapons that could be associated to a basic class.

[northernsky]

I'd rather just have real jobs thank you very much.

Surely you have a more detailed thought that you want to share with us thank you very much

[Cairdeas]

Yes I agree.
My point was rather that eventually they will need to add more base classes to sustain the depth of the armory system over the course of time, not only new jobs on top of the existing weapon classes.

So I was not bringing new classes a a pretext to implement new weapons, they can already add new weapons to existing classes.
Rather, I was thinking about which base classes they could add, and what weapon could be associated with them.

I'd say 1 Hand Axes can stay with Marauder because its the same usability its all Clefting. 1 Hand Axes using dex more then Strength for its damage modifiers though.

So
Marauder = Great Axe, Hand Axe, Tomahawks.
Lancer = Lance, Polearm, Spear.
Gladiator = Short Swords(Slow Strong, Daggers (Fast, not as strong)
Fencer = Rapier(Hybrid), Wing Swords(Magic), Epees(Melee)
Iaido = Katana (Magic), Great Katana (Melee)
Enforcer = Club (Melee), Hammer (Magic)
Soldier = Great Sword
Musketeer = Gun, Rifle
Entertainer = Entertainer Instruments (String, Wind, Card/Dice)
Pugilist = Knuckles, Claws
Archer = Bows, Crossbows

[Carpe]

The OP mentions bringing in additional weapons as either: 1) an entirely new weapon class or 2) a subset of an existing weapon class. Obviously this would be a judgement call for the developers to make, as they have already done to some extent, ex. including daggers with swords (which a lot of us seem to not like).

Keeping Jobs/Titles separate from Weapon Specializations gives them two options for introducing new "class" content, they could introduce new abilities and spells to be shared between classes by introducing a new weapon class, or they can create a new kind of "role template" by introducing a new job/title.

Going back to a point that was made earlier by Kirith, bringing in certain jobs basically "as-is" from FFXI may not really work given the way some of the weapon classes have already been established. Like would there be enough to introduce "Monk" and "Warrior" as jobs when there already seems to be so much of what makes up the feel of those jobs in classes like Pugilist, Gladiator, and Marauder? Obviously they could rework those jobs and the abilities and spells found in the existing weapon classes to try and fit them in, but it'll really be their judgment call to see what they think would ultimately make the most sense in the end.

It's not a perfect analogy, but you can kind of think of the process of making your character similar to like creating a deck in a trading card game like magic the gathering. You're gonna build your deck around a strategy/theme that is going to help you accomplish the goal you want to achieve (this is the job aspect). They introduce different sets of cards (expansions) that introduce new spells, creatures, enchantments, etc. that are the building blocks for creating your deck (the weapon class aspect). Each set has it's own themes and mechanics, you can build a deck focused around those new themes and mechanics or you can just extract the new cards that are going to be most useful for your already existing deck.

When you want to introduce a new concept like say Pets (SMN, BST, etc.) you're going to have to decide at what level it should be introduced. The more specific it gets the more you'll probably want to just introduce it at the job level somehow because everything introduced at the weapon level will have to be something that should potentially make sense as a generic thing that can be used by several different jobs.

[Cairdeas]

The way you'd differenciate classes similar to old school jobs is the traits they get access too..

For Instance.

A Monk would get the "Kick Attacks" Trait which would add a Kick attack to random abilities that are Familiar to Monks.

A Warrior would get "Double Attack" trait which grants the chance to add an extra attack onto the end of any skill that Warriors are Familiar with.

Ninja would get a Trait called "Ninjitsu" Which would turn skills like "Fire" into "Katon" when equipped.

[Volsung]

Honestly, I like this idea, it lets me keep the freedom of the armoury system, which I've enjoyed because I understand how to create a class that plays a certain way, but it also lets me get a further feel for that job by the inclusion of "job specific" skills in conjunction with the suggested title idea.

Unfortunately I'm afraid they may be too far into their already chosen path to use this idea, but if its anything like this and they handle the bonuses in such a way that you've suggested that I could fairly play obscure combinations that played competitively I'd be in heaven.

I'd also be peachy on title advancement through storyline similar to armoury rank quests