Gamespot ARR article. HOW DARE YOU DOUBT OUR YOSHI-P!!

[Gramul]

which is exactly what it takes to be successful,

No simple standard MMO has ever been a great success. Oh they can live just fine, but they mostly just coast on the contrived.

Every MMO that has claimed to be original, to add something new and drastic to the genre, has depended on a gimmick or ultimately small addition to gameplay that does nothing to improve or change the old structure that's set in place. Its never really expanded and it's stagnating. We have seen MMO's do WoW's thing 10 times better but a lack of content to compare and the lack of actual nuance keep people away.

Who is going to be interested in a game that adds nothing new? Pretty visuals and story only last so long as evidenced by every other MMO to come out in the past 5 years. In the end, we're all just doing the same KILL X OF Y questlines and rushing to endgame instances and no one has been brave enough to challenge that no matter the claims of originality.

To actually believe that the basic structure of MMORPGs is something that's already peaked, that you can't or shouldn't change from it is extremely shallow minded and keeps every new release from impressing crowds. No other genre is so hell bound to stick to a formula in the fear that it will fall apart. Even shooters have their occasional Portals and Metroid Primes. Games that aren't afraid to add concepts from other genres to restructure the core into something worth experiencing. Something that actually stands out and still retains popularity.

Bottom line: We've done this before and it has never worked out better than just "okay". If success is determined by playing it safe and resting in the expected, adding only to most shallow aspects of its design, then it's hardly something I would consider worth attaining.

Aside 1: I still fully intend to play and enjoy this game. I just think it's dangerous to not consider what we've learned form release after release of underwhelming MMOs ever sense LOTRO failed to make any lasting impression.
Aside 2: Is your shift key broken?

[TenraiNagi]

No simple standard MMO has ever been a great success.

You are making a valid point, but wasn't WoW a simple standard MMO when it first came out? It did nothing ground breaking for the genre. It borrowed many of the successful features in other MMOs, mashed them together, and executed them well. After building its pretty solid foundation, the game expanded upon it and started climbing all the way to the throne it sits on now.

Isn't that what FFXIV is doing currently? Yes it is still at the standard MMO level. And a high quality one, probably the highest from all that's out there. Given time after launch, every aspect gets improved and enhanced (more classes/ jobs, story content, new worlds, etc...). Then an MMO truly flourishes to show what it's capable of.

No one can expect the dev team to create an MMO in 2 years only and expect it to be the best of the best in every aspect, and redefining the genre in ways no one ever did (this is where the interviewer seemed ignorant). They wanted to make it to standard MMO level, and they did an excellent job at that.

tl;dr No MMO is a "wow-killer" the second it launches, but with good foundation to build upon, any MMO can become a brilliant game.

[Kallera]

You are making a valid point, but wasn't WoW a simple standard MMO when it first came out? It did nothing ground breaking for the genre. It borrowed many of the successful features in other MMOs, mashed them together, and executed them well. After building its pretty solid foundation, the game expanded upon it and started climbing all the way to the throne it sits on now.

Isn't that what FFXIV is doing currently? Yes it is still at the standard MMO level. And a high quality one, probably the highest from all that's out there. Given time after launch, every aspect gets improved and enhanced (more classes/ jobs, story content, new worlds, etc...). Then an MMO truly flourishes to show what it's capable of.

No one can expect the dev team to create an MMO in 2 years only and expect it to be the best of the best in every aspect, and redefining the genre in ways no one ever did (this is where the interviewer seemed ignorant). They wanted to make it to standard MMO level, and they did an excellent job at that.

tl;dr No MMO is a "wow-killer" the second it launches, but with good foundation to build upon, any MMO can become a brilliant game.

Yeah, though one major difference (And this is more industry related than with the gaming populace) Is that This is the first MMO attempting a ressurection on such a scale. Sure there are attempts to revive favorites done by others (Hellgate being one example off the top of my head) but Most modern MMO simply peter out and go "Free-to-play" in an attempt to wean whatever money is left from a game's audience, an absolutely none of them ever gain the shine of their previous attempt.

SE not only wants to supass 1.0, it wants to succeed in such a manner that its contemporaries (SW:TOR, DC Online, TERA, etc.) had not.

[Tonkra]

No simple standard MMO has ever been a great success. Oh they can live just fine, but they mostly just coast on the contrived.

Every MMO that has claimed to be original, to add something new and drastic to the genre, has depended on a gimmick or ultimately small addition to gameplay that does nothing to improve or change the old structure that's set in place. Its never really expanded and it's stagnating. We have seen MMO's do WoW's thing 10 times better but a lack of content to compare and the lack of actual nuance keep people away.

Who is going to be interested in a game that adds nothing new? Pretty visuals and story only last so long as evidenced by every other MMO to come out in the past 5 years. In the end, we're all just doing the same KILL X OF Y questlines and rushing to endgame instances and no one has been brave enough to challenge that no matter the claims of originality.

To actually believe that the basic structure of MMORPGs is something that's already peaked, that you can't or shouldn't change from it is extremely shallow minded and keeps every new release from impressing crowds. No other genre is so hell bound to stick to a formula in the fear that it will fall apart. Even shooters have their occasional Portals and Metroid Primes. Games that aren't afraid to add concepts from other genres to restructure the core into something worth experiencing. Something that actually stands out and still retains popularity.

Bottom line: We've done this before and it has never worked out better than just "okay". If success is determined by playing it safe and resting in the expected, adding only to most shallow aspects of its design, then it's hardly something I would consider worth attaining.

Aside 1: I still fully intend to play and enjoy this game. I just think it's dangerous to not consider what we've learned form release after release of underwhelming MMOs ever sense LOTRO failed to make any lasting impression.
Aside 2: Is your shift key broken?

i didnt read carefully.. but i think i partly have to disagree..

all people seem to talk about that MMorpgs needs to invent the whole wheel new.. But wasnt that what most of the MMO's in the last years tried to do? Warhammer public quests, rift public quests, SWTOR questing through tons of cutscenes (linear), TERA having action hacknslay combat, "The Secret World" going for a different setting.

does that made the games more successfull? it did not.

my personal opinion is: the MMOrpg is for most of the players a total new genre compared to all singleplayer genres which we are used to for about 20 years (singelplayer rpgs, jump and runs etc.), and that they cant handle this factor.


But woo*.. did they changed a lot till today, concerning these old genres? no they did not.
there are turn based single rpgs (Heroes of might and magic, Baldurs gate), like there are some with action combat (Diablo etc.), realtime combat (skyrim, gothic), and an atb turned combat like FF.. so whats wrong about it, that every MMO offers a different combat system? congrats to those MMOrpgs where action combat (TERA) or real time combat (TESO) just have arrived.. but you dont need to speak bad about a game which uses a different (some call it "traditional") gameplay at the same time. thats my opinion.

Besides that... FF ARR offers indeed some "special features".. the final fantasy franchise itself (SHIVA, GILGAMESH, CHOCOBOS, an eastern epic storyline)... and for the gameplay it uses a LIMIT-BREAK system and jobchange system.. which i think are unique things and which are standing for FINAL FANTASY also!
And the Content is much more based on group play than other MMorpgs (not only for the endgame)

nobody complains, that an "the elder scrolls game" plays almost the same like an "the elder scrolls game" which is over 10 years old... many people say that a modern mmorpg needs to offer anything different then "clicking skills"...


Refering to TERA and Blade&Soul (Which are using an action Hack'n'slay combat sytsem) im personally asking myself.. if that kinda gameplay is the best ever, why is nobody playing these two games?


personally im sick of these "opinions"
i could "throw up" reading statements like this on Gamespot, too. its just retarded.

[Reaujien]

No simple standard MMO has ever been a great success. Oh they can live just fine, but they mostly just coast on the contrived.

Every MMO that has claimed to be original, to add something new and drastic to the genre, has depended on a gimmick or ultimately small addition to gameplay that does nothing to improve or change the old structure that's set in place. Its never really expanded and it's stagnating. We have seen MMO's do WoW's thing 10 times better but a lack of content to compare and the lack of actual nuance keep people away.

Who is going to be interested in a game that adds nothing new? Pretty visuals and story only last so long as evidenced by every other MMO to come out in the past 5 years. In the end, we're all just doing the same KILL X OF Y questlines and rushing to endgame instances and no one has been brave enough to challenge that no matter the claims of originality.

To actually believe that the basic structure of MMORPGs is something that's already peaked, that you can't or shouldn't change from it is extremely shallow minded and keeps every new release from impressing crowds. No other genre is so hell bound to stick to a formula in the fear that it will fall apart. Even shooters have their occasional Portals and Metroid Primes. Games that aren't afraid to add concepts from other genres to restructure the core into something worth experiencing. Something that actually stands out and still retains popularity.

Bottom line: We've done this before and it has never worked out better than just "okay". If success is determined by playing it safe and resting in the expected, adding only to most shallow aspects of its design, then it's hardly something I would consider worth attaining.

I agree with your comments with regards to FPS and mentioning the Portal and Metroid Prime games; they're great examples of doing something different w/in a genere. I've never been a FPS fan (not that I hate them, just never really interested me as much as other types of games), but I loved playing both those games - and all installments of each.

Though your example was about being different, I think there's also something to say about sticking with what worked or what compelled players to continue to play those games over other games in (for example) the FPS genre. For example, another thing I think about is that though I'm sure those games in their own individuality had a sizable fan base, I highly doubt that it encompassed the vast majority of players who typically play FPSs. And that's okay, and I'm guessing those game developers realized it when they created the other installments of each. I would explain to some friends who might ask me about Portal 2 and the additional Metroid Prime games that if she didn't like how the original played that she wasn't going to like any subsequent ones. Why? Because those game developers didn't try to "reinvent the wheel" (so to speak) with how the game was played when they made the other installments. So players who enjoyed the original/earlier installments could look forward to another game with enjoyable gameplay and with new elements (story, puzzles, monsters, characters, [insert w/e you'd like here], etc.).

My point is that I really feel that since this is SE's second RPGMMO (well, for FF that is) it should be a balance of both: Sticking to what worked, and being different from what's currently out there.

Aside 1: I still fully intend to play and enjoy this game. I just think it's dangerous to not consider what we've learned form release after release of underwhelming MMOs ever sense LOTRO failed to make any lasting impression.

Yeah, I definitely plan on giving it a shot; though, admittedly, I have some skepticism with regards to the gameplay and leveling process. Maybe it'll suck me in for years, or maybe it'll feel like all the other "modern MMOs" (and/or expansions) felt to me since post XI:ToAU/WoW:TBC and find myself bored 6-12 months down the road...

Aside 2: Is your shift key broken?

LOL I'm stuck on a shiddy conference call and this made me laugh while I wasn't on mute - damn you!~