The growing entitlement issues of the casuals

[Dubont]

Actually there is a difference. The more "active" players want things that are different from the things that the "less active" players want. So if steps aren't taken to find a middle ground (which they haven't as of yet), then one side is going to be discriminated against.

Again, you're wrong. I'm "less active," as you say, but I want things to be difficult, just not a time sink. Your generalizations are only showing that YOU, as a player, do not want to find a middle ground. This isn't high school. There are no goths, emos, jocks, popular kids, nerds or ANYTHING. We are ALL gamers. There is nothing separating us other than how much time we can put into the game and our own personal opinions based off of past MMO experiences. Not all players with more time to waste want time sinks and not all players with only 4 hours a week to play want crap handed to them. Generalizations and discrimination will tear this community apart.

[Bled]

Again, you're wrong. I'm "less active," as you say, but I want things to be difficult, just not a time sink. Your generalizations are only showing that YOU, as a player, do not want to find a middle ground. This isn't high school. There are no goths, emos, jocks, popular kids, nerds or ANYTHING. We are ALL gamers. There is nothing separating us other than how much time we can put into the game and our own personal opinions based off of past MMO experiences. Not all players with more time to waste want time sinks and not all players with only 4 hours a week to play want crap handed to them. Generalizations and discrimination will tear this community apart.

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That right there is exactly how i fell myself, well said my good sir. I will not lie though looking back on FFXI i did have a lot of fun even with the ridiculous NM spawn times. I like the idea of a lottery spawn timer.

[Kaedan]

Again, you're wrong. I'm "less active," as you say, but I want things to be difficult, just not a time sink. Your generalizations are only showing that YOU, as a player, do not want to find a middle ground. This isn't high school. There are no goths, emos, jocks, popular kids, nerds or ANYTHING. We are ALL gamers. There is nothing separating us other than how much time we can put into the game and our own personal opinions based off of past MMO experiences. Not all players with more time to waste want time sinks and not all players with only 4 hours a week to play want crap handed to them. Generalizations and discrimination will tear this community apart.

No, I'm not "wrong". You're the one making generalizations. You boiled everything down to "wanting things to be more difficult." That's very broad, and doesn't really prove your point in any way.

There are many similarities between the less active players wants and the active player wants. Sure, there are exceptions of people who fall into the "less active" that want things similar to the "active" players and visa versa... but it is not common. There is a reason that the labels "casual" and "hardcore" exist. Because the majority of players that fall into one of those categories want similar things. Hell, even developers use this language, so you can't pretend that the distinction doesn't exist. Now, there are also extremists within these categories as well, which are also not common (though the arguments that occur between camps always focus on the extremist arguments, which gets people nowhere... and the extremists tend to be the most vocal).

But you're missing the point entirely. The point is that there needs to be some middle ground between styles of play. And if steps aren't taken to either: A) bridge to the middle ground or B) create content tailored to each style (read: tailored to, not "only for"), then one of the groups of players that prefer a style is going to be discriminated against.

[Zenaku]

No, I'm not "wrong". You're the one making generalizations. You boiled everything down to "wanting things to be more difficult." That's very broad, and doesn't really prove your point in any way.

There are many similarities between the less active players wants and the active player wants. Sure, there are exceptions of people who fall into the "less active" that want things similar to the "active" players and visa versa... but it is not common. There is a reason that the labels "casual" and "hardcore" exist. Because the majority of players that fall into one of those categories want similar things. Hell, even developers use this language, so you can't pretend that the distinction doesn't exist. Now, there are also extremists within these categories as well, which are also not common (though the arguments that occur between camps always focus on the extremist arguments, which gets people nowhere... and the extremists tend to be the most vocal).

But you're missing the point entirely. The point is that there needs to be some middle ground between styles of play. And if steps aren't taken to either: A) bridge to the middle ground or B) create content tailored to each style (read: tailored to, not "only for"), then one of the groups of players that prefer a style is going to be discriminated against.

But but there casual that play 4hours and try to get everything i nthe game and would enjoy difficult. Once again it about how you use your time. Smoeone who have 4hours to play can easy win a person who play 8hours. Now how would you do that? easy the 4hour player play less so he found easy way to do things and he more skill player. So ya at the end there just dumb labels which there is more and more play type then just that.

but i do agree we need a dam middle ground in this game.