Please no items binding to players....

[Linkurrra]

MMO =| RL.... The mmo world wont fall into any recessions or depressions, people wont start being layed off, etc etc in an mmo. Its just not the same.

Wait, so when everybody stopped buying my gear for jewelery when you could get the same earrings and etc from dungeons as what I could make! I had no reason to keep making stuff because nobody would buy.

Thats not the same as being laid off? lol

I think it is, while game economies are pretty fragile, every item they introduce in the game has the potential of affecting the market. How it effects it is an unknown till it happens. Because the community is living breathing entity you can't predict. Even economists can't predict, they just analyze trends and forecast much like meteorologists! And we know how accurate they are! lol They just get paid to do it!

[DoctorMog]

MMO =| RL.... The mmo world wont fall into any recessions or depressions, people wont start being layed off, etc etc in an mmo. Its just not the same.

I don't want to pick fights, but do you recall the crash that happened in 11 because gil sellers unloaded billions of gil around Christmas of 2004?

With so much gil in the economy, there was no profit in farming materials or crafting items.
Because there was no profit in crafting/farming, people stopped doing them.
The reduced amount of items in the economy created a crazy demand shortly thereafter.
Driving prices back up, but with so much money in the economy (RMT) the economy bottomed out.

Much like real life.

So, I'm not saying it's identical to real life, but game economys and real life, have the same driving forces behind them.

[Ricky]

Making rare items easy to get makes them not so rare. Whats the point of having easy drops for everyone? just go play another mainstream mmo for that.

I feel like if you play these games just for gear you're doing it wrong, I played 1.0 for the storyline.. though I will admit those storyline updates are few and far between and so players need other goals. Personally I think this is preferable to items with 2% drop rates from camped NMs by bots

MMO =| RL

Except in regards to economies, I've heard economists study video game economies.. Team Fortress 2 economy is a good example

[Breg]

think again about an economy where you can buy a brand new car for 15,000 dollars only to turn around and resell it for 15,000 dollars 6 years and 100,000 miles later. it can work for intangibles like stocks and bonds because they're not goods/services- they're investments.

I disagree with this statement. With level cap increases and introduction of gear that is marginally better through expansions, gear will slowly become obsolete. There will be a time during which a selected item will resell for about the same amount, but it will not be for entire game's life time.

When I spend an extended time to get something, I don't want this item's value to be 0 as soon as I bind it. There has to be a good upgrade option in place, for me to be OK with it.

[Reika]

Oh well I guess theres really no way to prevent an MMO economy from crashing violently. More inevitibility. BoE or not, its all doomed.

[Mjollnir]

Firstly, as mentioned earlier, I'm not against this system because I have no idea about how the related game systems are going to work, as they haven't been revealed yet.

However, I think an answer to most of the posters in this thread who are against the system may be keyed into the functionality of Spiritbond and Materia.

If Spiritbond occurs at a proportionally faster rate for lower level gear (ie when a suitable upgrade becomes available after 3-4 levels, the old item has completed Spiritbond), then it assures that all old gear can be converted. Not sure on the exact figures, but I felt it always took about 5-6 levels to max out Spiritbond when levelling between 1-30. Obviously Spiritbond at level 50 is a different kettle of fish altogether.

So then, if you're converting all used gear into Materia, it's having some use (rather than a nominal NPC gil value). Understandably, a lot of the Materia gained at this point will be weak. One of the many things I pray to The Twelve for is that there is a process at an NPC to combine, say, four Tier One Materia into one (random-ish) Tier Two (or lower) Materia. This would ensure AH/MW/Retainer demand for crap Materia obtained through the increased amount of Spiritbonding by the playerbase (that is still levelling). At 50, you could still grind Spiritbond to create Materia, but at least after every four duds, you'd have a free 5th chance at the one you wanted through this combine system.

This idea isn't something I came up with entirely; a similar system (without Spiritbonding) is used in LotRO for refining Relics that bind to your Legendary Weapons.

[Destain]

There is absolutely no need for this. I hear people saying that it will keep the crafters going but that is what the materia system is for. With the materia system people will still constantly be blowing through gear to try and get materia, so there will always be a need for crafters.

Making it to where you cannot sell your used gear is just plain retarded. I really hope SE changes it because in my opinion there is no point. Crafting was very essential in 1.0 and it would be the same in 2.0 without this stupid binding feature. If anything this will make the market or AH pretty lame imho.

LOL, just kind lit the fuse and walked away there huh?

[Breg]

idiotic. you buy a car for $15,000 then the moment you drive it off the lot it loses about half its value. even more value is lost the more you drive it. by the time you actually need to trade it in several years down the line, you're lucky to get a few thousand in trade. have you never looked in a kelley blue book?

The idea is you can get at least half of the money back when you return the next day, and ten years down the road with 200k miles, you can still sell it for a few hundred bucks.

The point I was originally making is that after returning the next day with that car you will get 0 for it.

[GodseijuroHiko]

The idea is you can get at least half of the money back when you return the next day, and ten years down the road with 200k miles, you can still sell it for a few hundred bucks.

The point I was originally making is that after returning the next day with that car you will get 0 for it.

You can change it to materia, or you can NPC it. All of which will be >0. He typed other responses as well pointing at the "Federal" reserve. I have yet to see any of you bring up a valid/direct counter argument. When he points out your economic ignorance, you jump to something else. I'm sensing that people don't even know how it works in the REAL WORLD, but like to use RL as argument "show stopper." 5 dollars 30 years ago would get you way more than 5 dollars would now, and there is a reason for that.

Since you don't like arguing the facts being brought up, I'll deviate as well. I'm worried about the pricing of video games in the next gen cycle and the future. 70 dollars for a game, then 80 dollars after if you follow the trend they've been going at, seems a bit over the top (for me anyway). There are rumors suggesting Sony and Microsoft will be making their systems bind new games to your system (Bind on equip lol), making it impossible to play used games. Naturally, people moan and complain about, "How can I take the game to my friend's house to play?" *You take your system with you to your pal's..., and since you're able to sign in multiple accounts on one system, they can earn trophies etc too. The next argument is about reselling games you no longer want. This is where the the problem lies. While I used to trade games when I was younger (like 10 years ago lol), I don't do it now. I only buy games I love, and I want to support. The rise in the dlc (that is already on the disk, but locked..), release date dlc, is a growing problem. Because of corporations like Gamestop, who will sell you a game that was just released for 65 bucks with tax, turn around and give you 30 dollars the day after the game came out. They will then put that price back up to 60 dollars. This leaves little room for the developers to make any money, because there are too many used games circulating (think of the devs as crafters). We all whine and moan about no great games, and that's because making games is a HUGE risk and investment costing time (years) and money. We want all the freedoms and care very little for the way the video game economics work. If they bind games to consoles, but keep the next gen game prices at 59.99, I'll be very happy (Maybe it'll even go down in price, if it's digital). Maybe then we'll actually get worthwhile DLC, that comes out months AFTER the game and not at launch (and locked on the disk...) so the devs can try to make a profit. Other people have to eat too, and the used game market hurts developers. To make up costs, they use tactics that we then bitch about.... Go figure... If devs use tactics that I don't approve, I vote with my wallet. *I am not getting Street Fighter X Tekken* Prolly get it used for 20 bucks though, just to stick it to them .

Back to FFXIV: ARR...

Is it really hard to grasp, or have none of you naysayers been paying attention to the ups and downs in the FFXIV (and also FFXI) economy? If there is BoE, crafters won't be able to inflate prices because people won't want to eat a huge loss for minimal gain on something they know they won't be able to resell. This will force more reasonable prices. IT BENEFITS YOU! Crafters can have a stable income because equipment will be steadily created and removed. Materia IV for gear, as well as relics, won't be some insane price because of the same reason listed. You can't resell materia bound gear, so the materia prices will stabilize as well. You can make the feeble argument that I have no tangible proof for this, but anyone who paid attention in FFXIV can see that it's an informed educated guess.

As someone who started FFXI on PS2 launch, I can say I understand how hard it was to play catch up to some of the RICH JPs on Alexander server. Now that I played FFXIV on launch, I made it a personal goal to stay on the up and up even if the game sucked so I'd never be at such a huge disadvantage like I was in FFXI. That was the ONLY reason I toughed out the mess that was 1.0. Now that they've introduced this system, I can honestly say that I'm relieved the new comers and late comers won't be so screwed.

[Mishaela]

Is it really hard to grasp, or have none of you naysayers been paying attention to the ups and downs in the FFXIV (and also FFXI) economy? If there is BoE, crafters won't be able to inflate prices because people won't want to eat a huge loss for minimal gain on something they know they won't be able to resell. This will force more reasonable prices. IT BENEFITS YOU! Crafters can have a stable income because equipment will be steadily created and removed. Materia IV for gear, as well as relics, won't be some insane price because of the same reason listed. You can't resell materia bound gear, so the materia prices will stabilize as well. You can make the feeble argument that I have no tangible proof for this, but anyone who paid attention in FFXIV can see that it's an informed educated guess.

Yeah, I tried to go over this in more detail the other thread last night and all that came of that was three pages of off topic posts. Sasuga lodestone. At least it's nice to see someone else from Sargatanas using their brain.