Quick Poll on Microphones

[fusional]

oh also even though we can do things and talk info at same time, it usually don't happen that way. usually we get to a spot, stop and then talk about what needs to be done for like 10mins? lol same as what needs to be done in a typing party, so what is the point other then the typing.

your experience is hardly indicative of the experiences of voice chatting gamers as a whole. it would be just as silly if i assumed everyone else spent as much time crunching numbers and upgrading gear in between raids as my LS does, simply because that's my own experience.

[SkyeWindbinder]

more like this.
Yes this again.

Awesome song! (thumbs up)

[Lady]

One grand thing voips did for me.. confirmed that 90% of all female characters are guys.

[Vilhem]

One grand thing voips did for me.. confirmed that 90% of all female characters are guys.

It's funny because the first time I heard Molly I was like...WAIT YOU'RE NOT A CAT AND YOU'RE NOT A FEMALE

The it was like..."WAIT VIL YOU'RE NOT A DOOD WTF!!" Then there's the lalafell players with really deep voices.

Those kinds of reactions are always fun.

[Dhalmel]

One grand thing voips did for me.. confirmed that 90% of all female characters are guys.

and a good amount of female players play with a male character, I don't blame them.

[Phe]

i never committed that fallacy. i never said people weren't true/real/raiders if they didn't use voice chat. i said, in the context of modern mmos, if you don't use voice chat it's impossible to be *serious* about raiding. if you want to split hairs over my definition of 'serious', that's perfectly valid and we can do that. but don't misrepresent my position.

if i were to say obama isn't a "real skeet shooter" because of X Y Z, then yes- that's the fallacy you referenced. but if i said he's "not a serious skeet shooter" because of X Y Z, it's not. it's different. and it would be difficult to argue he *is* a serious skeet shooter. you COULD argue that, but it wouldn't be easy.

(and don't get it twisted- this example says nothing of my political beliefs)



how was it contradictory? do you really think our groups are the same, sharing the same experiences? you don't think there's a difference between coordinating a group aiming for world first kills and a group coming along and doing the content weeks or months later, after the strategies have already been totally ironed out, and videos have been posted everywhere for reference?

so when you have no videos to go by and no guides to read, and you're pushing to finish content before anyone else- you don't think that's at all different? you don't think that not only gives us reason to use voice chat, but pretty much requires it if we're *serious* about our goals?

you're trying to say our positions are equivalent when they aren't. and this isn't taking away from your own achievements whatsoever. you get relic, you get white ravens- congrats. more power to you. my LS wishes more people in the community would strive for the same. but the simple fact of the matter is this is effectively false syllogism. "you do endgame and we do endgame, therefore we are both serious about it"

it doesn't work because it's not equivalent. but once again- what you could do here is debate my definition of 'serious', and upon doing so you could very rightfully claim that there are different levels of seriousness and that it isn't all the same. and in doing so, i'd agree and relent on that particular issue.



i did nothing of the sort. i included all modern mmos in the context of my original statement.



good on you. that puts you in the minority around here, and i can assure you any time someone can acknowledge which context they base their position on and which context they can't speak from, it's very much appreciated and helps quite a bit in the pursuit of actual constructive discussion.

i wouldn't bother speaking for the pros and cons of elements in various fighting games because i don't really play many and am not really that into them when i do. i do, however, try quite a lot of MMOs. this makes me come across as a know-it-all at times, but the bottom line is that this forum is an MMO forum and devs are looking to other MMOs for inspiration in their reboot of FFXIV. so the topic comes up a lot. and i happen to have quite a lot of experience with it.



yes, true- you did beat it, and it does prove it's not *necessary* for voice chat. i never said it was necessary, though. i said it was "impossible to be serious"- and again, this leaves room for debate over just what "serious" means, but that doesn't say "impossible to accomplish"

furthermore, as i previously mentioned- the fact that it's possible doesn't mean all experiences are the same. and the word "equal" shouldn't imply i'm comparing 'better' or 'worst'- just that they aren't equivalent. implying our experiences are the same based simply on the fact that we both beat it does disservice to the entire basis for comparison, as the comparison needs to be made on an equal basis *or* context must be provided to allow for an inequality (ie: the fact that we do it without any videos or guides, and try to do it as fast as possible after patch goes live. very few other LSs experience this and as a result they largely experience content differently than we do. this is especially noteworthy in the context of voice chat and other elements which improve performance)

as you said- none of this diminishes your efforts or enhances my own. i agree. however, this makes our efforts and experiences and the resulting perspectives a bit different. and while we can also split hairs over just *how* different- the difference is there nonetheless.



but discussing things is exactly what i do, until i'm met with (or simply observe) an attitude which isn't conducive to constructive discussion. and you can very clearly see a lot of that here and in any number of other threads. (both examples of me constructively discussing things and people presenting an attitude which isn't conducive to that)

i'm not the best person at interpersonal politics, but i understand systems and logic, and i'm quite good at cutting through to the heart of any matter. details often bore me. i'm much more interesting in sifting through arguments to isolate and argue for the principle. the fact that you're invested and you care and you actually want to discuss things is appreciated, but you also have to understand that *there is such an overwhelming amount of garbage* posted in this forums that i can get tired of it and it makes me short with people.

it's a character weakness i've acknowledged on multiple occasions in the forums, and whenever it comes up i do apologize. i try to work around it, but it's difficult. especially when i do care quite a lot about this game being successful in 2.0 and so many forum regulars, in spite of possibly (probably) having good intentions, seem to be working against this end- whether wittingly or not.

in the end i shouldn't be short with particular people just because i'm tired of reading other people posting floods of stupid shit. it's not your fault, and i'm sorry for that.

that said, though- it is incredibly frustrating when i make a point of carefully choosing my words to say exactly what i mean denotatively (or, if not- at least providing proper context otherwise) only for people to misconstrue and misrepresent my position, happily interjecting their own connotative meanings in its place, only to carry on repeating their own position without context, without base.

devs gave these forums to us to help us provide feedback to improve game quality. but instead people just seem content to use it as a chaotic sounding board for non-constructively throwing biases at each other. and then what's even the point of having the forums? it just makes the devs' jobs exponentially harder, wading through the piles of muck to find a few scattered gold coins.

it reduces them to the gaming equivalent of toshers, and it's pretty irritating to watch unfold.

o.o

wow. just wow.

[Lady]

and a good amount of female players play with a male character, I don't blame them.

Considering most of us gals had to play Male characters during all the other Final Fantasy games (with the exception of VI oh and XIII & X-2), I wonder why we all don't play males.

[SkyeWindbinder]

It's funny because the first time I heard Molly I was like...WAIT YOU'RE NOT A CAT AND YOU'RE NOT A FEMALE

The it was like..."WAIT VIL YOU'RE NOT A DOOD WTF!!" Then there's the lalafell players with really deep voices.

Those kinds of reactions are always fun.

Reminds me of when I was playing a Belf on WoW. I had some people in female characters hitting on my character. I couldn't tell which it was more: funny or uncomfortable. lol

[fusional]

One grand thing voips did for me.. confirmed that 90% of all female characters are guys.

well, yeah. it seems like female elezen are often actually females, and so are female lalafells. female hyur are sometimes actually females, and miqotes are almost always guys

to my experience, anyway

[Vilhem]

Considering most of us gals had to play Male characters during all the other Final Fantasy games (with the exception of VI), I wonder why we all don't play males.

Love my midlander male character <3 Wouldn't change him for the world...well maybe for Thancred >.>