Item Binding

[Dzian]

Another thought. Will melding requests be changed to allow multiple melds?

Bob over there has a double melded shield which he wants to try and triple. Unfortuantely Bob doesnt have armorer.

How then does bob try and get his shield triple melded if he can't trade it to a crafter?

You could say level a craft but then you end up in a game where there is no economy because everyone in the world has every craft at max because its the only way they can meld there stuff.

[Reika]

Another thought. Will melding requests be changed to allow multiple melds?

Bob over there has a double melded shield which he wants to try and triple. Unfortuantely Bob doesnt have armorer.

How then does bob try and get his shield triple melded if he can't trade it to a crafter?

You could say level a craft but then you end up in a game where there is no economy because everyone in the world has every craft at max because its the only way they can meld there stuff.

They may do that, lest joe shmoe who doesnt craft wont be able to have more than single melds on things he icreased spiritbond with. Not that I mind that...

[Taika]

I already wrote a long rant about this issue in the other thread, but I don't understand the need for this system and here's why:

The reason why crafters weren't able to sell stuff and make money in 1.0 wasn't because people were reselling their used stuff, but because people didn't need to buy gear from the wards. This gear bind change will not change this issue or make things any better.

The main issues were 1. everyone (well, almost everyone) having a few crafts leveled and 2. each craft having only a few profitable synths (which all the crafters were making and selling simultaneously). This was caused by not having any limits to max level crafts (in XI for example one character could only have 1 craft at max level) and crafts being way too easy and fast to level (it was even profitable to level a craft!). Most players either had all the crafts they needed to synth their own gear or could ask a friend to synth / meld gear for them, which meant nearly no one had to buy stuff from the wards.

The gear bind system will not fix any of the main problems in 1.0s gear economy or make it any easier for the crafters.

[Judge_Xero]

The main issues were 1. everyone (well, almost everyone) having a few crafts leveled and 2. each craft having only a few profitable synths (which all the crafters were making and selling simultaneously). This was caused by not having any limits to max level crafts (in XI for example one character could only have 1 craft at max level) and crafts being way too easy and fast to level (it was even profitable to level a craft!). Most players either had all the crafts they needed to synth their own gear or could ask a friend to synth / meld gear for them, which meant nearly no one had to buy stuff from the wards.

The gear bind system will not fix any of the main problems in 1.0s gear economy or make it any easier for the crafters.

You have to look at the issue from more angles. What else do we know is changing.

- The number of tiers of materia is being reduced
- Increased odds to get higher tiers of materia from high level gear
- Hopefully increased population of new people

So we should have a pile of new people that have 0 crafts leveled and may not even be interested in crafting.
(don't assume that everyone in the whole world has every craft leveled, because the number of people that played Version 1 will be a very small % of people if ARR really takes off)

If you break it down and look at just high level gear and materia. If there are greater odds to get high level materia from high level gear, and with reduced tiers, there will be more good materia. So if the market gets flooded with good materia, then the value of the materia goes down.

Gathers sell to Crafters. Crafters sell to Adventurers/Spirit Bonders. Spirit Bonders sell to General Market.

If you take gear out of circulation through Binding and Spirit Bond, then there will always be a demand for it. Which means there will always be a demand for Raw Materials. Which opens up a huge range of Markets for items to be sold.

Looking at just the high level market in Version 1.
- Level 50 gear was worth a lot until single melded gear came.
- Single Melded Gear was worth a lot until Double Melds
- Near the end of Version 1 even Double melds were getting dirt cheap when Tripple Melds started popping up.

At that point it was only worth the Gatherers time to go after Darksteel, Cobalt, Gold, Copper, and a few others and whatever Botanists and Fishers gather, because the Niche Market was Darksteel Gear, Relic Weapons, Hamlet Provisioning Items, and some Foods (Raptor Stew etc)

The life of Version 1 wasn't long enough for us to see it completely Plateau the Market, but it was getting close.

People might be complaining now that their gear is worthless, but if you are a casual player and the markets were ruled by Hardcore players, and everything was Million Dollar Tripple Melds or Rare Dungeon Drops because nothing else was worth their time to sell:
- your time would be spent Leveling a gathering job because Raw Materials would be too expensive to buy, or there would only be items that the hardcore groups would buy.
- your time would be spent leveling a craft or four to craft the gear, because it's not worth the crafters time, and the raw materials for your gear are non-existent or super expensive.
- now you're angry because you really just want to run some dungeons, but this game forced you to gather and craft, just to make some better gear.

[Taika]

You have to look at the issue from more angles. What else do we know is changing.

- The number of tiers of materia is being reduced
- Increased odds to get higher tiers of materia from high level gear
- Hopefully increased population of new people

So we should have a pile of new people that have 0 crafts leveled and may not even be interested in crafting.
(don't assume that everyone in the whole world has every craft leveled, because the number of people that played Version 1 will be a very small % of people if ARR really takes off)

If you break it down and look at just high level gear and materia. If there are greater odds to get high level materia from high level gear, and with reduced tiers, there will be more good materia. So if the market gets flooded with good materia, then the value of the materia goes down.

Gathers sell to Crafters. Crafters sell to Adventurers/Spirit Bonders. Spirit Bonders sell to General Market.

If you take gear out of circulation through Binding and Spirit Bond, then there will always be a demand for it. Which means there will always be a demand for Raw Materials. Which opens up a huge range of Markets for items to be sold.

Looking at just the high level market in Version 1.
Level 50 gear was worth a lot until single melded gear came.
Single Melded Gear was worth a lot until Double Melds
Near the end of Version 1 even Double melds were getting dirt cheap when Tripple Melds started popping up.

At that point it was only worth the Gatherers time to go after Darksteel, Cobalt, Gold, Copper, and a few others and whatever Botanists and Fishers gather, because the Niche Market was Darksteel Gear, Relic Weapons, Hamlet Provisioning Items, and some Foods (Raptor Stew etc)

The life of Version 1 wasn't long enough for us to see it completely Plateau the Market, but it was getting close.

People might be complaining now that their gear is worthless, but if you are a casual player and the markets were ruled by Hardcore players, and everything was Million Dollar Tripple Melds or Rare Dungeon Drops because nothing else was worth their time to sell:
- your time would be spent Leveling a gathering job because Raw Materials would be too expensive to buy, or there would only be items that the hardcore groups would buy.
- your time would be spent leveling a craft or four to craft the gear, because it's not worth the crafters time, and the raw materials for your gear are non-existent or super expensive.
- now you're angry because you really just want to run some dungeons, but this game forced you to gather and craft, just to make some better gear.

I think I understand the points you're making, but I don't understand what they have to do with the gear bind system?

[Judge_Xero]

I think I understand the points you're making, but I don't understand what they have to do with the gear bind system?

It's all interconnected.
You could even say the rate at which a certain fish is caught is related to the Gear Bind System.

It's just part of one big wheel of control, that hopefully keeps the economy balanced and continually flowing. The Dev team has a huge responsibility to manage.

New Worlds -> Brand new economy no existing players can join
Old Worlds -> New and old players can join (New players 0gil -> existing players, some having Max Gil)

So if gear binding on SB is just a small part of this system, to make sure everyone has a good experience, then it's a good thing, no?

Is it safe to assume that the people that are so concerned about the value of their gear, will be the first in line to purchase some player housing? Who will be the first to drop a couple Mil for a Plush Moogle Lamp for beside their bed?
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I do have concerns about gear sharing, reducing the feeling of community in these FF titles. But if the changes to the system increases the variety of items on the market, then buying the mats for a quick synth wont be a huge issue.
I enjoy helping out newcommers and friends, so as long as that's not effected....

I'm now thinking... this is kind of info devs should of kept quiet till actual beta starts...
People saying no no no!! to something they didn't try how XIV implemented the system... general idea will pretty much be the same, but I don't understand how everyone says no to something they haven't even touched in XIV...

oh well... carry on~

I'm 99% certain they added this because of you Rein. We can't handle anymore of your Used, Melded Subligar in circulation anymore.

I'm with you on this one. I'd bet most people wouldn't have even noticed had this info not come to light.

[Hirmu]

If you break it down and look at just high level gear and materia. If there are greater odds to get high level materia from high level gear, and with reduced tiers, there will be more good materia. So if the market gets flooded with good materia, then the value of the materia goes down.

If we start getting better materia more easily, it will probably make materia cheaper and more available, but there's also the other side to this: it also means that crafters will have a smaller market since people don't really need to SB twenty belts to get one or two good materia. They'll get the ones they want and since materia is generally cheap, there's less incentive to even bother SBing for money.

Of course you could always say that crafters will just raise the price on good SB items, but the fact is that crafting is easy to level, gathering is easy to level and there will always be enough crafters around to undercut the prices.

Looking at just the high level market in Version 1.
Level 50 gear was worth a lot until single melded gear came.
Single Melded Gear was worth a lot until Double Melds
Near the end of Version 1 even Double melds were getting dirt cheap when Tripple Melds started popping up.

At that point it was only worth the Gatherers time to go after Darksteel, Cobalt, Gold, Copper, and a few others and whatever Botanists and Fishers gather, because the Niche Market was Darksteel Gear, Relic Weapons, Hamlet Provisioning Items, and some Foods (Raptor Stew etc)

The life of Version 1 wasn't long enough for us to see it completely Plateau the Market, but it was getting close.

This is a good point, but there are other factors to consider too. The introduction of AF and GC gear made most crafted gear obsolete unless they were double or triple melded. There was also the massive amount of money floating around which caused many people to simply buy the stuff they needed even though they could easily gather or craft it themselves. Money was just so worthless that it's hard to make any assumptions based on the economy we had. I'd argue that the only truly valuable things were rare materia and smartly done double or triple melds and maybe a few dungeon drops. Anything else was just a matter of whether or not you bothered to go and get them.

So my point here is that there never was an issue of "people cluttering the market with their second hand gear." If anything this helped those who could not get a crafter to double meld for them to aquire some good pieces people would sell after upgrading past them. And to be honest I don't ever recall seeing good double melds for cheap. Maybe this change will cause some crafters to start selling multimelds just for the gil, but with the changes in materia system I can just see this becoming a case of whether or not someone bothers to make that small profit or not. The real issue (in my opinion) always was too few worthwhile craftable gear pieces and too easy leveling of crafting and gathering classes.

They're just importing a system which works in games where you level up your character only once and have multiple alts into a completely different setting. They're addressing a problem which never was with a system that causes more problems and frustration than it solves.