Paladin vs Warrior - ARR better set roles!

[darkstarpoet1]

the difference between pld and war is the player using them and how well they were geared honestly. war had a higher starting point and a lower ceiling. a bad war was better than a bad pld. the pld took the top tanking spot when you looked at the top level of each job. a good skilled pld with good gear was much better than a good skilled war with good gear. the reason people usually asked for war is because unless the person was a good pld and was geared well then war was the safer choice. once people started learning how to play pld well and got their gear upgraded pld became the better choice.

low level gear and skill
War>>>>>Pld

great gear and skilled
Pld>>>>>>>>War

[Reika]

Well, I don't think 'Faceroll' tanks should exsist period :/

[Azzi]

My two main jobs I played in 1.0 was WAR and PLD and they both had their uses in different situations. But personally I thought PLD was a far superior tank in most tanking situations if played right.

PLD had more damage mitigation abilities and if used at the right time, you'd take far less damage than a warrior. And emnity was better on PLD if you got off spirits within at every available opportunity.

Main problem I found with tanking on WAR was the main single target combo was from the side so you'd often move the mob out of position when pulling off this combo, similtaniously messing up everyone elses combo lol.

Just my experience of the two.

[Quatre]

the difference between pld and war is the player using them and how well they were geared honestly. war had a higher starting point and a lower ceiling. a bad war was better than a bad pld. the pld took the top tanking spot when you looked at the top level of each job. a good skilled pld with good gear was much better than a good skilled war with good gear. the reason people usually asked for war is because unless the person was a good pld and was geared well then war was the safer choice. once people started learning how to play pld well and got their gear upgraded pld became the better choice.

low level gear and skill
War>>>>>Pld

great gear and skilled
Pld>>>>>>>>War

This.

Also Steel Cyclone threat was inferior to self heals, AOE flash, and War Drum.



Another thing is that Spirits Within damage never showed up on the parsers for some fights if you were using Taichi's (sp)
With Curtana I was easily dealing nearly as much damage on single target fights as a warrior, and much more on physically resistant mobs (lolchimera) . Once you get into Garuda/ Princess where AOE dmg is involved WAR pulls ahead.

[Junpei]

As someone who pretty much only Tanked in 1.x, Both WAR and PLD had their place in almost every encounter (as others have stated, Darnus Hard and Ifrit X require a PLD).

But for AV/CC/Garuda - Tanking on WAR was fine, and so was Paladin!

It just depends what your goals are. I would certainly say that in most every case, a party would be safer with a Paladin. Mostly because it gave the whm an easier job. Free AOE regen, and more less damage taken overall.

But If you have a talented white mage, or your goal is pure speed, then sacrificing your self-survivability for more damage is always welcomed where applicable!

There are of course times when you cant use a Warrior tank. Particularly mobs with very high defence, as the bulk of WAR Enmity comes from their damage. Trying to tank Chimera on WAR for a speed run without good use of Enmity potions would mean a slow start for your DD's. Whereas a Paladin opening with Spirits within is keeping that threat on lockdown, so your blackmages can go BANANAS!

As for 2.0, I hope nothing changes too much! PLD is great for tanking bosses and WAR is great for AOE tanking regular mobs in a dungeon, both have their place! A good Tank will swap roles mid Dungeon to accomplish the highest levels of efficiency! (I'd run through CC on WAR and swap to PLD in the final room so my cooldowns were ready for the boss for example!)

[Reika]

This.

Also Steel Cyclone threat was inferior to self heals, AOE flash, and War Drum.



Another thing is that Spirits Within damage never showed up on the parsers for some fights if you were using Taichi's (sp)
With Curtana I was easily dealing nearly as much damage on single target fights as a warrior, and much more on physically resistant mobs (lolchimera) . Once you get into Garuda/ Princess where AOE dmg is involved WAR pulls ahead.

And if this keeps up, no one can really have a Job preference. We will be forced to play a less desired Job or just not do the content, thus making the experiance less fun.

Everyone has had their own experiences on the jobs with the content, but when it comes to the numbers, X job is better than Y job at it.

[Quatre]

I don't think we'll have the problem if they lock job changing inside of dungeons reika. If they keep Job changing in dungeons in the game, everyone will have to have every DD unlocked/ geared, and likewise with tanks.

I like the idea of switching on the fly in the dungeon, but when it comes to design and balance it might be a better idea to not allow it.

[Shougun]

I don't agree that there need to be more than two tank jobs. PLD isn't good at anything else but....tanking.

Exactly lol

And yes Quatre Paladins where great in the right situations. But as you say yourself there are occasions when Warriors are just better. Paladins are -only- good at tanking, and when their only good trait is flawed you've got a problem. Paladins should be able to evolve to the situation not the situation catered to Paladins.

Paladins are just terrible for a lot of content non mano y mano fights, that means they should rape face at all of that content - and honestly they dont (on all content).

I think the PLD should get a bunch of spells that make him do what he does a built in benefit. Such as a spell like zealous vigor, turn it on and it drains mp/s for 15 seconds, while active you passively adds aggro to all monsters nearby, damage done to the Paladin (before defense and stoneskin calculations) is stored and when the vigor is turned off (or ran out) the spell will be replaced with divine retribution which will damage all nearby monsters and blind them (more damage to a single monster with less monsters around but your total damage would be more when more monsters are around). Good spell to tank many monsters or to eat a bosses super spell and lol toss it back at him.

Not really exactly that spell but spells like that which relate to the role your meant to be doing.

I think warriors should be encouraged to be beserk, so something like ignore pain would be good. A passive that increases critical strikes while HP is low and then just popping rampage lol - which just change parry to shrugging damage turning incoming damage to the warrior to a DoT of 8 seconds so 1000 damage -> 125 damage per second (buying you critical hit time and your WHM cure time).



While I know they arent perfect spells in this example both PLD and WAR can deal damage and tank damage, and they just do it differently.

Yes Paladins are good end game for some bosses, but there are too many events they are not. Your damage is ok... but.. meh.. I'll use aoe dps over here instead.

[darkstarpoet1]

This.

Also Steel Cyclone threat was inferior to self heals, AOE flash, and War Drum.



Another thing is that Spirits Within damage never showed up on the parsers for some fights if you were using Taichi's (sp)
With Curtana I was easily dealing nearly as much damage on single target fights as a warrior, and much more on physically resistant mobs (lolchimera) . Once you get into Garuda/ Princess where AOE dmg is involved WAR pulls ahead.

that's kinda the point i was making though. if a pld was geared well and the person was good at playing them then it was actually better than a war in MOST situations. granted, there were situations like in cc on the princess where the war would shine, but i don't mind it having encounters where another tank is a better option.

my only point is if you ranked people on a bar 1-5 depending on their gear and 1-5 on their skill then people that are ranked 1-3 average on those are better off as war, but 4 and 5 level ranked players are much better on pld.

[dbrewer225]

they already said there is no switching jobs in a dungeon