A Little Pain with my Pleasure

[fusional]

Figure out a strategy with the LS.

so nobody has any exposure to this fight before? nobody has read any guides, seen any videos, discussed it in forums, talked to anyone who has done it? when the going gets rough, everyone staunchly refuses any outside aid, refuses to browse any online resources for tips?

the point i'm making is that my LS goes into all new content completely and utterly blind, before any maps or videos or strategies are posted, when people in discussion threads are still scratching their heads trying to suss it all out. in doing what we do, we have a very different experience from 99% of players, and as a result are forced to take a drastically different approach.

so as i was saying, the fact that we do endgame and other people do endgame is a similarity, sure. but the devil is in the details, as our endgame experience tends to be quite different. and considering how few people truly end up sharing in that experience, it can be extremely difficult explaining the differences to others.

bottom line is- there's a pretty huge difference in the experiences of a group of explorers discovering an island for the first time and a group of settlers moving there after it's already been mapped. and as a result, their perspectives aren't quite the same.

[Altena]

so nobody has any exposure to this fight before? nobody has read any guides, seen any videos, discussed it in forums, talked to anyone who has done it? when the going gets rough, everyone staunchly refuses any outside aid, refuses to browse any online resources for tips?

the point i'm making is that my LS goes into all new content completely and utterly blind, before any maps or videos or strategies are posted, when people in discussion threads are still scratching their heads trying to suss it all out. in doing what we do, we have a very different experience from 99% of players, and as a result are forced to take a drastically different approach.

so as i was saying, the fact that we do endgame and other people do endgame is a similarity, sure. but the devil is in the details, as our endgame experience tends to be quite different. and considering how few people truly end up sharing in that experience, it can be extremely difficult explaining the differences to others.

bottom line is- there's a pretty huge difference in the experiences of a group of explorers discovering an island for the first time and a group of settlers moving there after it's already been mapped. and as a result, their perspectives aren't quite the same.

Bla bla bla, all I heard was "I am the best. I write the way you do things." In response to that, no. You do not.

Yes we attempt content without outside aid.
Yes we figure out strategies that work best for our group.
No they are often not "borrowed" from other peoples strategies and are quite often original.
From time to time we might have a look at what other people do, but that does not necessarily determine the way we decide to do things.
No you are not the only linkshell that writes strategies, and furthermore yes, you too have watched other peoples videos from time to time.

You do not know my experience, linkshell, or play style as I choose not to post this sort of information in detail. Do not presume you know something that is not in plain sight to see. Just because not all of us paste it all over the internet or brag about completing content, doesn't mean that the ones that do are the only ones that figure out strategies.

[IndigoDarkwolf]

Yes we attempt content without outside aid.
Yes we figure out strategies that work best for our group.
No they are often not "borrowed" from other peoples strategies and are quite often original.

Well, your experience was certainly different from mine. I recall being mocked for not researching the strategy for Garuda before I first attempted it.

[Altena]

Well, your experience was certainly different from mine. I recall being mocked for not researching the strategy for Garuda before I first attempted it.

Garuda I will admit, we needed a small nudge, however our other strategies are based on trial & error - much like yours by the sounds of things.

*edit* We also don't push for "world firsts" as our playtimes are quite global, however I stand by the fact we share a ~similar~ perception but different opinion.

[PimCarb]

Really this is just getting ugly.

I concede there is just no place for an MMORPG that is “too” difficult to play for the general audience.

The new crop of MODERN gamers want “double experience weekends” heaven forbid someone take something from you and makes you earn it back. What would the progressive gamer do without the big arrow in the mini map to show them where to complete their quest.

The whole point to have an introspective on the things that people complained about that may have had value. Not to have a “who is the greatest player commentary” vomited all over.

This will only further suppress any other person that may have ideas that could help the dismal state of MMORPGs today.

[Altena]

Really this is just getting ugly.

I concede there is just no place for an MMORPG that is “too” difficult to play for the general audience.

The new crop of MODERN gamers want “double experience weekends” heaven forbid someone take something from you and makes you earn it back. What would the progressive gamer do without the big arrow in the mini map to show them where to complete their quest.

The whole point to have an introspective on the things that people complained about that may have had value. Not to have a “who is the greatest player commentary” vomited all over.

This will only further suppress any other person that may have ideas that could help the dismal state of MMORPGs today.

I admit I have been less then pleasant in my more recent posts and have acted a little out of character. I do not enjoy posting about what content I have or have not completed, as I look down upon people that use that to lord over others on a forum. I believe MMO's are designed for players of all skill levels and playtime, however it is very difficult to find that balance of what is realistic to improve that difficulty, and what is just too harsh for newer players.

Perhaps EXP loss is not the way to go, as it costs a valuable thing to quite a lot of players - time.
However I do feel that something does need to be done about the lack of fear for death. It should not be a dull "eh whatever" feeling to die/get KO'd.

[fusional]

Bla bla bla, all I heard was

oh look, another person who actively rejects the denotative meaning of words and replaces it with their own connotative, biased garbage. yeah, that never happens here or anything. exciting and new stuff. yep.

Yes we attempt content without outside aid.
Yes we figure out strategies that work best for our group.
No they are often not "borrowed" from other peoples strategies and are quite often original.
From time to time we might have a look at what other people do, but that does not necessarily determine the way we decide to do things.

if you're all able to go months without any access to any understanding of what goes on in a fight before you finally get around to trying it, then i'm quite impressed. however, i don't know that i particularly believe it.

No you are not the only linkshell that writes strategies

so is writing a strategy a day after content goes live the same as writing one a year later? it obviously isn't.

and furthermore yes, you too have watched other peoples videos from time to time

from time to time? this has only happened once, with ifrit extreme. we watched a short JP video showing them wiping to an entire floor of plumes, then another short JP video of them wiping to 8 nails phase. this only happened because we were weeks behind in the relic questline, as we waited for absolute confirmation that hamlet seals would be used in relic before we started to collect them- and then we tried to get seals for everyone in the LS before pushing on, rather than just our first 8.

in spite of starting weeks behind (which we very publicly acknowledged was nobody's fault but our own), and in spite of being beaten to the punch by the JPs, we finished ifrit extreme in 4 days (~16-20 hours) of attempts, before any guides were posted- NA or JP. we had nobody to exchange ideas with but ourselves. we couldn't seek help from other players or the forums even if we'd wanted to.

and don't you think it's strange then that the initial wave of JP kill groups were using monks and warriors... while we were using 4 dragoons? we used only one warrior for our first kill, and we stuck with that strategy. we never bothered writing a guide for that because the JP method of 2-3 warriors was much safer and we knew it would be preferred for LSs trying to get both initial and repeat kills. our 1 warrior strategy was too reckless for most LSs to consider.

and in the event that we lose world first, we finish so close on their heels that our kill still preempts any guide or video.

so, no, not really.

You do not know my experience, linkshell, or play style as I choose not to post this sort of information in detail.

and then the only information i have to go by is your lodestone history, which isn't terribly supportive of your claims- as it would be difficult for anyone to admit that every single person in their LS involved in a fight went that long without *any exposure to it whatsoever*

Do not presume you know something that is not in plain sight to see

she says, after assuming we watch videos and read guides for first kills just like anyone else.

Just because not all of us paste it all over the internet or brag about completing content, doesn't mean that the ones that do are the only ones that figure out strategies.

but here you're doing it again- you're attempting to draw an equivalence between formulating a world first strategy and formulating a strategy months later. how are the two the same? in a progression group we don't form a strategy at our own pace, we're pushing ourselves and each other to the absolute limits to do something as fast as humanly possible. this can often change one's approach to strategics dramatically. we also have no resources to aid in our quest.

and it's convenient to keep playing the "bragging" card when it suits you, isn't it? "oh, well the only reason we did it slower or differently is because we're not full of ourselves" or whatever drivel... it's a strange position to see so soon after wagging the finger about presumption. so in spite of making a resource available to the public to aid them in their kills, and in spite of the public readily using this resource- we're just doing it to brag? are you sure about that?

so if that was the goal, why wouldn't we just post a picture, tell everyone they suck and leave it at that? why do we go through the effort to record videos from multiple job perspectives, to write guides from multiple job perspectives, to field questions and requests in the forums and answer to the best of our ability? and why do all that when we have to deal with people like you who try to shit on our efforts to make *yourselves* feel better? why wouldn't we just say "ok then, good luck assholes. figure it out on your own"? why do we shrug off the criticism and continue to put together these resources for the community?

seems like an awful lot of wasted effort for the sole sake of epeenery.

so tell me again about this presumption thing. i see quite enough of it from you, but maybe i'm missing something? or maybe it's you who is missing something. like the point. which i repeat for the third time (and hopefully this time you actually read it and process what exactly it means without conjuring up imagined insults to your honor):

(and i've bolded this, in case you skip reading absolutely everything else)

yes, we both participate in endgame. however, no- our endgame experiences aren't terribly similar.

and that's okay. nowhere did we say you should have the same experience, nowhere did we look down on you for not having the same experience

i was merely
describing
what
is.

dig?

[Altena]

tldr; also can't be bothered continuing this meaningless discussion in a dead end thread about something that won't change.

[Phe]

tldr; also can't be bothered continuing this meaningless discussion in a dead end thread about something that won't change.

i think it's more like a hole with no bottom.

[Mjollnir]

i think it's more like a hole with no bottom.

Much better than a bottom with no hole.