A Little Pain with my Pleasure

[ispano]

Because it's a mindset. Death Penalties are SUPPOSED to encourage better play. However, as you pointed out, it's not the penalty that's the problem, but the player.

[Jynx]

And then when it sticks, stay with that strategy and NEVER EVER leave it or bother trying anything new because you might DIE

Because we all know how often people experimented in 1.0 once someone had a "Win strat" right?

People began to treat wasted time as a death penalty, and excluded people/jobs/ideas just the same. It became the norm to idle around instead of forming your own group to try something new because nobody was willing to spend time trying something new.

Death penalty never stopped people from being elitist jerks, nor did the lack of one.

[fusional]

Because it's a mindset. Death Penalties are SUPPOSED to encourage better play. However, as you pointed out, it's not the penalty that's the problem, but the player.

precisely. a death penalty doesn't really encourage better play in practice, because the players it discourages are players that were already discouraged. playing better comes from wanting to be better, and/or the best. no penalty influences it whatsoever. you're either driven to play better and better or you're not.

and besides, the strongest motivator for better play is competition. but this game's community is horrified of that, so...

Because we all know how often people experimented in 1.0 once someone had a "Win strat" right?

you're only reinforcing their point. people using carbon copy strats to win rarely ever strayed from the formula because they just wanted easy wins. the people making the strats everyone else copied, though, experimented quite a lot to find faster and more efficient strategies. so...

[Jynx]

Your on quite the mean streak today aren't you Fusional?

Anyways a proper death penalty doesn't need to be exp loss, but something enough to make people pause before the run headlong into a grove of Malboro just to see what is on the other side knowing that the only penalty is they might not actually make it there.

I remember when being able to avoid agro was a skill worth note, not pointless because you can just zombie walk anything that presents even the most mediocre challenge.

[HiirNoivl]

Because we all know how often people experimented in 1.0 once someone had a "Win strat" right?

Moogle Fight

BRD/ARC strat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkEm5wYvXTg
WHM strat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOkIwkkktTU
Of course there's the usual BLM strategy
But there was also a MNK strategy but I can't find a vid for it. ; ;

So... there.

[Jynx]

Moogle Fight

BRD/ARC strat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkEm5wYvXTg
WHM strat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOkIwkkktTU
Of course there's the usual BLM strategy
But there was also a MNK strategy but I can't find a vid for it. ; ;

So... there.

How does this show me that people were as willing to experiment than in a game such as XI there were multiple strats to win many fights in that game as well...The only difference is the rapid pace of when/how these strategies emerge because with no fear of death you can go in with 6 miners for all the penalty that is imposed upon death. Hell a 15 minute lockout would even suffice for the instanced content enough time to let people have a breather and see what went wrong instead of just mashing the enter button again.

[PimCarb]

There are some real opinions on the issue it seems. I have felt that the idea of gear damage has favored the gil sellers to some degree. Yes it has given the crafters more to do and I enjoy that aspect. What about giving a choice of exp or gear damage?

The amount of exp earned today is ludicrous. It has precipitated its way to all new heights. I do not want to go back to FFXI as it is no longer the game that it was; although there seemed to be a rite of passage to make it out of the Dunes. This idea that you do not need to party until people blindly feel their way through a low level dungeon or wait for endgame to start to party is just a joke. Yes the old way was a grind to lvl. The grind gave birth to party unity and eventually into friendships. This is what I feel is lost today in the hyper instant gratification games have become. The daily shout for a party was a bit of suckyness and I would still take that over the running battles and mish mash party setups of today. The camp and pull was much better than the run run run.

Again there was bad in the old games. To say that they are better now I feel is short sited. There was some good and some I feel has been lost. Yes exp sucked some days and others it made you realize that you were just playing your character poorly.

[fusional]

in a game such as XI there were multiple strats to win

straight tank, kite, zerg. is that what you mean by multiple strats?

I have felt that the idea of gear damage has favored the gil sellers to some degree.

something that costs money favors people who want to make money? i don't... understand

[HiirNoivl]

You can't enter with miners but DoH played an interesting role in the Ifrit battles, interrupting the Hellfire move for a while before it was patched.

YOU implied people didn't experiment but my post showing the opposite and now has you complaining "They found new strategies too fast!" Waaah!

Whatever dude. Like I said, you can always play XI if you want EXP loss penalties.

[Jynx]

YOU implied people didn't experiment

No YOU Were the first to imply that with a penalty that people didn't experiment, just showing you it's the same regardless.