What Tera taught me about the quest plans for ARR.

[Firon]

Hehhhhhh... The main problem of FFXIV was the scary lack of content. Whether it's mob grinding, questing or leve grinding, we are ALWAYS moving from one area to the other from low levels to higher levels. A quest path isn't going to change that.

The wonderful thing about FFXI was that the quests had no reward to them other then just the pleasure of doing them. Take that attitude and apply it to FFXIV, add new quests all the time regardless of levels, add some low ones, some higher level ones, dungeons whatever.. The point is to provide enough story and content so people want to log the frack in.

The worry that we will be led along and bored to tears depends on the delivery of those quests, if they keep up the same personal interaction you have with NPC's at the end of XIV 1.0 I don't see much to fret over. As long as the delivery of the content is interesting and done with style on an interactive level it should make you feel as part of the world and story.

I don't know why most of you play games, but that is my reason and I think XIV will provide all that. Tera is a very soulless game, it lacks a life of it's own, just like XIV did at first however it's come so very far from that.

Great point's. I like quest leveling and grinding and I will do both even if both are not on par with each other. borderlands and a few other mmo's made me like quest leveling.

[Exn]

While it was not quest based leveling XI had tons of garbage quest that a lot of players did and they are now throwing around complaints cause they are getting exp for is the irony I am pointing out. Even looking at the alpha vid and seen of it killing random mobs still seems viable. It's just a group of people that want their preferred way to be the best way, which is pretty short sighted in my book. Killing mobs in the wild, doing dungeons leve quest and grinding all seems to be viable.

I'm just say'in, take a look at the alpha video and see that the mob he was 8 lvls over was still giving him like 35 exp. Like i said before in another post people will do more than one type of leveling if given the option.

Again MMo's are not failing cause of being quest based if they were truly tired of quest based mmo's then those 10 mil+ Wow would have all quit the game by now. Tons of my friends quit SWTOR because of lack of content, quit Tera cause of bland content. SWTOR had some of the best questing mmo has seen but that is not the reason it failed. I quit DCU cause of lack of content.

All these games had good idea's but executed the stuff that matter's dead wrong.

Ah, well I wasn't one of those players running around doing those trash quests. But I agree with you there, if you enjoyed those trash quests enough in XI, you really shouldn't have any room to complain in XIV as it's practically the same thing in ARR, but with EXP.

I'm not sure if you got to experience Alpha (not just view the video), but the reason this argument was brought up originally (even before the OP) was the glaring issue that grinding mobs in Alpha wasn't close to an equal leveling pace with doing the trash quests. Even Yoshi had said that he originally intended for quest leveling to be the primary means of leveling for ARR, we all just didn't know at the time he said that he meant other forms of leveling would be nerfed/ made less efficient.

Those MMOs may not be failing solely because of quest-based leveling, but it is a component to their failure. If a part of the playerbase says they don't play the game because they 'don't enjoy' / 'got bored with' the quest leveling and quit or never even started playing the game, then obviously that attributes to the games failure. Perhaps if they had other systems in the game that shined, some of those ppl would have over-looked the leveling system, while others still wouldn't have bothered with it. By the way, they wouldn't quit WoW now.. what for? The vast majority of their current experiences are endgame, or being dungeon PL'd to max level on alts... very very very few of those 10M are still going thru their first time leveling through WoWs trash quests (if they are still even active..). In WoW the quest leveling is in the past, back when they made it hugely popular in the first place, with the exception of those lore lovers when a new expansion comes out (which is why quest leveling should still be an option - some ppl love searching for bits and hints of lore, i get that).

[Linkurrra]

I have been playing Tera for the past 3 days...I'm to level 26, and so far it makes me realize that non-stop quest grinding has a way of feeling just as lifeless as regular grinding... There's no occasion to kill mobs never listed on a quest, there's no occasion to stop and look around, no reason to ever return to an old zone, there's nothing but being shuffled from one place to the next like cattle with all your leveling practically being done for you, in a never ending stream that begins to feel mind-numbingly linear. Last time I turned Tera off it was as I sat back and asked myself what the hell I was doing, and wondering was I really enjoying this, or was I just stuck in the loop? Then I had to turn it off when I realized it was just a loop and there was nothing really enjoyable about ANY of it.

I guess this could be dealt with in ARR with epic storylines, plot twists, and humorous or touching sidequests. Some truly innovative quests. Or even the occasional break in which regular grinding must be done for even just 2-3 levels before the quest loop begins again. I want to feel like I'm involved in the game's world and lore, where my level is raised by showing courage and skill...not feel like I'm rolling down an assembly line.

The one thing Tera DID seem to have going for it was small details like the stuff you would occasionally see floating by (seeds, or petals, or leaves), the fact that when you follow a river, it actually GOES somewhere that isn't an invisible wall. The bustling sound of voices and pets in the centers of towns, the epic splashes and sprays of blood as you slice into a mob, the little woodland creatures walking around just for show (some which you could kill for no real reason).

That said, Tera completely misses almost all the broadstrokes. Sure the combat system is kinda cool (though purely-action combat would never really work in ARR), but other than that, the story goes too long without giving you any INTERESTING details, every sidequest plot in each area is identical (kill X amount of mob to thin the herd, kill such and such mob to get 'special item, repeat).

Originally I had gone into the 'quest grind' topic uneducated. I liked quests, more quests sounded like more fun. But now I know that there needs to be moderation, or too much of a good thing becomes an incessant flood of whiny NPCs whose issues I quickly cease to care about.


TL;DR: SE really should be very careful about how they approach this whole 'you'll be able to quest-grind all your classes to 50' thing.

This is kinda the whole reason they have hung fast to the Levequests. Sure they are easy 15min bouts more directed for casual players. But they are flexible enough to be profitable and are only grindy because people made them that way because that was all they would do to level up. Levequests being the only way to level was never a true statement, it was just the best way to gain XP the quickest.

ARR really needed more quests, and have a few repeatable. ARR really ran into the problem of not enough quests. Especially since we could use the same character for multiple classes with non repeatable quests! After you got through 1 class you ran out of quests to do for your other classes and you were stuck doing Levequests again or leveling parties! :P

[Firon]

This is kinda the whole reason they have hung fast to the Levequests. Sure they are easy 15min bouts more directed for casual players. But they are flexible enough to be profitable and are only grindy because people made them that way because that was all they would do to level up. Levequests being the only way to level was never a true statement, it was just the best way to gain XP the quickest.

ARR really needed more quests, and have a few repeatable. ARR really ran into the problem of not enough quests. Especially since we could use the same character for multiple classes with non repeatable quests! After you got through 1 class you ran out of quests to do for your other classes and you were stuck doing Levequests again or leveling parties! :P

Na Tanaka said himself that FF XIV would revolve around leve quest. Even yoshi-p said he is ditching that idea.

[RowanLauron]

I can\\\\'t wait till Beta comes so I can stop being so darn tight lipped. :/

I know right? The NDA makes it hard on me when I see topics like this

Disclaimer: This is all my opinion and I make "you" references in a general manner. I am not attacking anyone personally.

I wish people would be open minded. Seems to me people want the old mob grind back. Which is fine I didn\\'t mind it, but people need to realize this new generation of MMO players are different from most of us vets who played MMOs like EVE, FFXI, EQ, and 1.0.

They want the most reward in the shortest amount of time for the least amount of effort and doing it solo. So it\\'s unfortunate that most games these days, MMOs included, tend to cater to these players. We have come to the point we may have to accept it and adjust or move on.

I played FFXI for 3 years then went to play WoW for 3 years so I\\'ve experienced both mob grinding and quest grinding (I played TERA in its beta and I had no intention of pursuing it. Felt the same as WoW to me so I had no intention of starting over doing the same thing) I liked both. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses.

One of the big arguments I see people arguing is you can\\'t learn your class if you are solo all the time. Well that\\'s not true. You need to have an idea of how your class works to be able to solo effectively. Sometimes even moreso than in a group setting. You are on your own and have to depend on your own knowledge and class abilities to survive. Granted you learn solo play and not a lot of group play, but for the most part as you level you know what your abilities do, and what your class is capable of. So when you get into a group setting you have the basic knowledge you just need to learn how to apply it in the group setting. (This IMO is where you see the separation between soloers and groups. No one wants to be patient and teach people anything anymore. You are just expected to know it, when that may not be possible everytime.)

On the flip side if all you do is group up; when you do decide to go solo you may have a higher chance of failing since you may not know how your class\\'s solo mechanics work, so you end up falling short and hate quests because they\\'re "stupid" and grouping is so much better.

This argument can go both ways. It just seems one sided since most of the content that a lot people seem to think that only matters is end game where 99% of the time a group is required.

Some of you need to get off your high horse and help these people out. You were new once. It won\\'t kill you to teach people how to play...it is a MMO after all right? This is what is causing the rift between solo and group content in MMOs. A lot of people just don\\'t want to deal with the group play since a lot of times they are met with hostility and insults for being solo and not knowing the content even if it may be the first time they\\'ve seen it. Since group play is obviously far superior just because it has "multiplayer" in the genre name. I may group up and know my class, but I may still fail if I don\\'t know the encounter or don\\'t know the people I\\'m with. This may cause me to go solo. Then you get more people wanting solo content. The rift gets bigger and the problem keeps getting worse.

Solo questing is easier when you have time constraints or you are tired of the mob grind, and group play, but remember just because these quests are designed for solo play in mind you can still party and do them in a group. If you choose to not do that, then why should questing not be a viable method, just because you don\\'t HAVE to do them in a group? Just because its solo content in a MMO doesn\\'t mean it doesn\\'t belong. The players decide on how much of the "multiplayer" they put into it. If you don\\'t like solo questing, just group up. You might like it! But you won\\'t know til you try. No one is forcing you to do it. You can argue that the new vision is trying to get away from the mob grind. Remember beta hasn\\'t even started yet. There is still tons of feedback that will be given and read. Give it time.

On the flip side mob party grinds are a blast! You get to group up with friends or strangers that may become friends. You also get to learn your class as well (At least in a group setting). It also prepares you for group play in the tougher encounters. You learn patience, how other classes work, you learn mechanics. You have to keep in mind there may be people out there who don\\'t like that. Deal with it. They\\'re going to be there. Complaining about it won\\'t make it go away. Just don\\'t play with them and find like minded people and play with them.

Everyone finds something different in an MMO, and not every person will like it. That\\'s the beauty of the "massive" and "rpg" part. Especially the rpg part. Just because it has "multiplayer" in it doesn\\'t mean EVERYTHING has to be a multiplayer endeavor. If it was I would have quit the genre a long time ago.

A quick example is CoD. It\\'s considered a single player FPS. Yet there is a multiplayer. Does everyone play it? No, but it can make it more fun. Just depends on your taste. Some people play it only for the multi player. If I had it I\\'d play it for the single player campaign mainly and multiplay on occasion.

I\\'ll leave you with this thought and really think about. I mean it...really think about it.

If someone ever created a MMO where to progress your character in every way imaginable wether it be gear, levels, money, content, or vanity items, and they made it to where only group play allows you to acquire those things and progress...

Example: your exp bar, crafting skills, gear, and item acquisition are all locked out unless you are in a group of 2 or more people...

Sure you can still solo. But your character would have no way of progressing on its own.

Would you play it?

[Ruethryl]

Kind of tricky I think (and having 2 60s in TERA I've done the grind twice along with what is now one of the stupidest easy crafting systems I've ever seen)..

Quest progression is alright if it shifts you around the map a bit much like leves, primals, etc did in 1.0.. TERA's quest progression is very very linear.. hell only reason I go to the starting Island or other low areas are for event mobs that have been spawning.

Making people hop around a bit like in FFXI, while still being quest based progression wise would at least have people intermingling.. will have to see if Ul'dah is still the big hub that it was in 1.0 (which also allowed people to mingle around). Personally hope that we won't live and die level wise solely by questing, but that remains to be seen.

[Reika]

Actually WoW's lvling system was one of the reasons that I quit that game. I played it for a few weeks and got to 72 (when the cap was still 80... idk what it is now.) and I quit. The way they did the questing system and lvling up I hated. I'm not sure why... but for some reason I could not get into the story. I'm pretty sure I only stayed that long because my brother was playing with me for a bit.

Perhaps it was because of the way the quests were presented. A little box with the text that you can easily skip and is hard to read. Perhaps that's why I don't like Aion either... the quest system is exactly the same (At least presentation of the quests.)

i quit wow cause of the questing, so i dunno why people think no one is going to quit this game over it. i detest quest leveling, i hate dungeon grinding for levels. i didn't even make it past rank 40 before i quit. and those that keep using wow as an example need to stop, that game is a frickin fluke. even experts have said this. just cause the one game every reject funneled to 20years ago did well doesn't make it other mmo's. or make it the standards of mmo's. mmo's shouldn't have standards, they are a genre and each mmo should be made differently at the least. but surely not all like wow. and not all with quest base leveling.

either way leveling system is the very thing you do the most in a mmo. least a good one, you level a many jobs like in ffxiv. or you reroll toons over and over. either way, this part usually is spent a lot of time on. in a good game it's fun, good game you don't need to run to max for it to be enjoyable. if i don't have the want and enjoy getting another class leveled or to get all my classes to max level when they raise a level cap then the game is total fail and i quit. simple as that. the logging into a empty guild to do events twice a week is not my idea of a mmo. a mmo keeps people playing and linkshells full 24/7 a day.

You two quit because you didn't like quest based leveling, but the game did not fail. I was pointing out that games do not magically fail because they decide to had quest-based leveling.

You personally don't like pt based mob leveling, your just stuck in the old ways, stuck in WoW/(insert practically every other MMO here except EQ and XI..), can't adapt to of accept 'lifestyle' changes... etc etc..

You haven't said anything here that I can't just say right back to you. Both systems are as old as dirt. But I assure you, one system (quest-leveling) has been used and abused waaaaaay more than the other.. Seems more like your that old dog, stuck in your old commonly used ways.. Step outside the box! Open your mind! Be accepting of other ppls values! (It's not like we are arguing to remove your beloved quest-based leveling.. we can accept you prefer a solo peaceful leveling experience.. but it also says alot about you all that your not willing to accept an equally balanced pt grind system..)

Heres whats wrong with everything you said. I leveled 2 classes to 50 on guildleves when they were party-based. I leveled the rest of my classes to 50 once monster grinding became the main thing. You know what I did? I adapted, something you and others clearly cannot do. I did not quit because a system less favorable to me became the main way to level up, I put up with it.

I put up with EQ's monster grind until i found a new MMO I wanted to try out (WoW). I put up with EQ2's monster grind while trying that out, but didnt much like how they butchered the classes that were really more powerful in EQ. I put up with XI's monster grinding until the sitting in Jeuno hoping to get a party invite on DRK got so tiresome I had to give it up, and that they took so long to do some job balancing. SO dont try to tell me to step out of a box or open my mind, you need to. You cant say anything I said back to me, because I adapted to the changes made in FFXIV. I've been there and done all those things, and monster grind were never the reason for me quitting. There were other things to play so I went to play them. If a Disgaea MMO ever comes out I will most likely drop XIV for that, or maybe try to play both. If you cant be sated simply because the game isn't a monster grinder anymore, then by all means quit. Would be a stupid thing to quit over, but whatever.

[Mendalas]

I agree with the op, I'm hoping the quests will be fun and integrated into the storyline. I got to level 15 in Tera and the quests are just not fun. Even some of the expansions in WoW had better questing, such as WotLK (when I quit). The questing was pretty fun and didn't seem as tedious.

[Exn]

Heres whats wrong with everything you said. I leveled 2 classes to 50 on guildleves when they were party-based. I leveled the rest of my classes to 50 once monster grinding became the main thing. You know what I did? I adapted, something you and others clearly cannot do. I did not quit because a system less favorable to me became the main way to level up, I put up with it.

You seem to have a real problem with not checking yourself in the mirror..

First of all, everything I said in that first paragraph still stands as you just admitted again you don't like pt based mob leveling and are asking for it to be nerfed (or removed) from ARR..

How can I step outside the box anymore?? I'm the one asking for all of the content to be included, unlike you who is just wants what YOU like included.. Generally referred to as narrow-minded. So yes, you need to open your mind.. or don't and keep the selfish position.

I've been there and done all those things as well, much like the majority of this playerbase.. so I'm not sure what your point was here.

Who said anything about me quiting? The game isn't even released yet so I guess this was your attempt at just making something up to finish your 'arguement'? The game is a monster grinder.. and quest leveler.. and dungeon grinder.. so your not even making sense. My arguement was for it to all be provided equally, and to not cater to one or the other as they originally intended.

[Reika]

You seem to have a real problem with not checking yourself in the mirror..

First of all, everything I said in that first paragraph still stands as you just admitted again you don't like pt based mob leveling and are asking for it to be nerfed (or removed) from ARR..

How can I step outside the box anymore?? I'm the one asking for all of the content to be included, unlike you who is just wants what YOU like included.. Generally referred to as narrow-minded. So yes, you need to open your mind.. or don't and keep the selfish position.

I've been there and done all those things as well, much like the majority of this playerbase.. so I'm not sure what your point was here.

Who said anything about me quiting? The game isn't even released yet so I guess this was your attempt at just making something up to finish your 'arguement'? The game is a monster grinder.. and quest leveler.. and dungeon grinder.. so your not even making sense. My arguement was for it to all be provided equally, and to not cater to one or the other as they originally intended.

Oh? when did I ever submit feedback for it to be removed. I've been here stating why I feel Quest based leveling is better than Monster based leveling. You're one of the only few assuming it wont be an option in ARR. It's only been stated, by the man, that it wont be the best option anymore. I didn't ask for anything to be nerfed, it was already planned to be nerfed, by the man.

Also, where where you with your equal leveling options requests when monster grinding was made primary over guildleves? nowhere? just fine with what they did so said nothing? What about the people who didn't like monster grinders, but had to do it anyways? #@#& them right? If they were still going the same monster grind route as in 1.0, with quests giving very unnoticable amounts of exp still, you would be just fine. If they suddenly shift back to monster grind being > all, you wont say a damn thing.