Possible story-based areas for end-game

[Exn]

I agree with you OP. I hope for open-world areas/content unlocked through progression of missions or quests. But, I also agree with Hulan in that it doesn't really seem like the direction ARR is headed. I would expect more along the lines of what we've already seen.. similar to the content experienced in MMOs like Rift and WoW (heavily heavily heavily instanced, with some focus on open-world content), at least as far as this year is concerned. If ARR lasts for at least a good couple years it should get some decent expansions that I'd hope will start to incorporate a more open-world and dynamic feel to the game.

There was a thread started by "ThePatriarch" (iirc) that went for a lonngg time addressing this somewhat. It was moreso focused on all open-world content, but your storyline open-world area suggestion would also work perfectly for that thread too. It used to be reviewed by the mods, idk if they still do though (although they should... ARR could still definetly use alot of the suggestions in that thread..)

[Wolfie]

Pre-requisites for entering end-game areas are fine, imo, as long as they are solo or relatively easy to do with pickup groups, and don't require several weeks to finish.

COP was a pain in the ass to do with pickup groups for a very long time, and really only static groups got through with it. It was a poor design choice. At the same time, totally open, no-requirement end-game content is bland, boring, and doesn't give any sense of satisfaction. I'm looking at you, WOW.

Also that said, there's really no reason not to instance end-game raids. If the argument is "well in Sea you could go to X, Y, or Z", then I can simply give Salvage as an example, or WOW's Naxxramas raid as examples of non-linear, but instanced raids.

Open area and instanced does not automatically imply linear content, that's a different design choice that should not happen and I hope the community will be up in arms about it if it does. I know I will.

[Exn]

COP was a pain in the ass to do with pickup groups for a very long time, and really only static groups got through with it. It was a poor design choice. At the same time, totally open, no-requirement end-game content is bland, boring, and doesn't give any sense of satisfaction. I'm looking at you, WOW.

Also that said, there's really no reason not to instance end-game raids. If the argument is "well in Sea you could go to X, Y, or Z", then I can simply give Salvage as an example, or WOW's Naxxramas raid as examples of non-linear, but instanced raids. .

CoP was actually pretty awesome for me, some of my best memories there. I completed all of CoP thru pickups (and this was ofc way prior to Abyssea, I started XI right after ToAU came out) but the key was I was totally comfortable leading and organzing the parties. Just took a little research online of the battle strat, and they only spend up to an hour or so finding the members I need/want. I also always jotted down my party members when doing missions because I'd look for them again (if they weren't completely useless) for later missions and could get my groups together quickly because of that.

It was a good experience for me, but I can understand it being a pain for those who'd rather not try to form their own parties. I couldn't always take everyone who may have done an earlier mission with me, and even long after I completed CoP, I'd still see shouts for those same ppl trying to get that same mission done, like 6 months later.. You either had to catch the hype when the expansion was released, or take initiative and setup and organize the party yourself (different from just recruiting 6 members and being like 'uh, so what should we do now..?')

Salvage was one of the few things in XI I barely touched, only entered it once (I was still focusing up maxing out my AU rank and grinding Nyzul) but I didn't realize it was an instance. I thought they were separate zones, like Dynamis, that only one group could enter at a time? Either way, yea XI did have it's instances, but it wasn't like the instanced content we get these days, which are pretty linear indeed.

[Zezlar]

I honestly never really had a problem with CoP, but then again I ran the parties and found my own people. Sure there were times I got a horrible group and we wiped a lot but I still wouldn't trade that experience. It was fun, and I definitely hope they create areas that require party oriented storyline to be unlocked.

[MicahZerrshia]

COP was a pain in the ass to do with pickup groups for a very long time, and really only static groups got through with it. It was a poor design choice. At the same time, totally open, no-requirement end-game content is bland, boring, and doesn't give any sense of satisfaction. I'm looking at you, WOW.

I think the only thing that was bad about CoP was the fact that after every battle mission you had 2 more with jp midnight restrictions and 3 that required you to cross the world 5 times to speak with 2 npcs back and forth. The actual battle content and lvl restricted areas were loads of fun and when you finished them you really felt like you accomplished something.

I did the entirety of all the expansions with pugs since my ls was dyna/salvage/MMM/etc and had little issue. Yes there was always that one idiot who didnt know left from right but we generally would d2 them or leave them for dead after they died the 10th time. Same went for endgame too, our dyna runs always had a ls member who was a blm in each group to just d2 the idiots. If you cant follow simple instructions like "walk dont run, and stay close to the wall" yep byebye, u lost your chance at the win, any drops and another chance for us to take you.

The nice thing we will have in ARR is the content finder, hopefully if it works the way Im hopin it will, there wont be a need to sit in ul'dah and /sh for 2 hrs to put together a group. And the bad or jerk players get a rep real quick. The only players I would cut any slack were the ones who may have been bad but were trying to learn and if their gear was sub-par, well if you wanna make a real effort I was there to help. These players also get a rep and tend to get helped more and eventually become first class in their fav jobs.

[Hulan]

From a design perspective, I think the main problem most people have with mission limited content (such as zones) is the difficulty finding people who need it. This is certainly a valid concern - I've never had an issue with it myself, but it's undeniable that some people are just going to come late to the party and find it very difficult to find enough kindred spirits.

The solution, as I see it, is offering completion credit to players who finish a mission multiple times. A similar series of ideas is mentioned in Achievement Ideas Anyone. Basically, tangible and intangible cumulative rewards for helping other people complete missions. Certainly, I know if we had gotten GC seals for doing To Kill A Raven people would have been shoving to help out people who hadn't finished yet.

[MicahZerrshia]

Yep dangle those achievements in front of us and here we come lol

Other than that unless your helping a friend or linkmate who does things twice without reward?

Thats one of the reasons my ls had a "help a noob" policy, we always had at least 1 person we were helping through content and what not. Idk how many times ive climbed nyzul 1-100 just to get someone their key but I must say I enjoyed it.

[Wolfie]

CoP was actually pretty awesome for me, some of my best memories there. I completed all of CoP thru pickups (and this was ofc way prior to Abyssea, I started XI right after ToAU came out) but the key was I was totally comfortable leading and organzing the parties. Just took a little research online of the battle strat, and they only spend up to an hour or so finding the members I need/want. I also always jotted down my party members when doing missions because I'd look for them again (if they weren't completely useless) for later missions and could get my groups together quickly because of that.

It was a good experience for me, but I can understand it being a pain for those who'd rather not try to form their own parties. I couldn't always take everyone who may have done an earlier mission with me, and even long after I completed CoP, I'd still see shouts for those same ppl trying to get that same mission done, like 6 months later.. You either had to catch the hype when the expansion was released, or take initiative and setup and organize the party yourself (different from just recruiting 6 members and being like 'uh, so what should we do now..?')

Salvage was one of the few things in XI I barely touched, only entered it once (I was still focusing up maxing out my AU rank and grinding Nyzul) but I didn't realize it was an instance. I thought they were separate zones, like Dynamis, that only one group could enter at a time? Either way, yea XI did have it's instances, but it wasn't like the instanced content we get these days, which are pretty linear indeed.

I did COP before TOAU, but they relaxed it some in TOAU as well (and you also had new jobs, gear, and battle mechanics to use).

Don't get me wrong, being among the first 20-something people who got Sea access on the server felt good, and the zone's design will always stand out to me as among the best in any MMO I've played.

But reflecting on it now, after years of playing and trying other MMOs, putting end-game content at the end of a very long, hard, and multiplayer-required quest chain frustrates a lot of people. What's worse, is that if very few people actually get to do that content, you've basically wasted money, time, and effort creating something that your playerbase won't really get to enjoy.

You need a mid-way between gating your content, and laying it all out from the beginning. I was a huge fan of Salvage, Dynamis, Assault Missions, because they had some fairly minor entry requirements, and you built up to the later stages by completing previous stages. I was also a fan of how attunements were done in WOW:BC; you needed to do a few 5-man dungeons to get access to the entry level raid, an effort that took at most a day if you dedicated your time to it. Every raid after simply required you to beat the previous one.

What I don't like is FFXI's Sea that most people didn't get to see (heh) after months of trying; and new WOW-style raids that can all be hit up as soon as you reach max level, even if you haven't completed the previous tier.

[Wolfie]

Also Dynamis is still technically an instance, it's just that only one was available at a time. You had all the characteristics of an instance: other groups couldn't come in and join you or steal your stuff, the mobs were generated fresh each time, it was a totally separate zone, it was on a timer, etc.

[Artiss2k]

Yeah Sky didn't come until Rise of the Zilart expansion and Sea came with Chains of Promathia, so I hope we get something like this with future expansions of ARR. It felt awesome getting access to these kinds of areas. I remember looking on search and seeing folks in these zones and feeling like this is something i've got to get access to, they are so cool being up there in these weird zones that I can't even pronounce lol, and I worked toward it until i got in.