[Reminder] Are you ready to cry again? (2° Wave of Alpha invites tomorrow, 3 dec.)

[moriandrio]

Alpha Test is not to please everyone, its to test certain stuff out and apperently you don't need every single person for that. If you know everything better and can do everything better, pls go ahead and apply to SE.

But there is no point to use these unrealistic theories to complain about not getting in alpha, maybe thats even good cause if you would mess the alpha forums with all your complaints nobody would find the feedback anymore.

Everyone always thinks his feedback is so important and he supports the game so much more then everybody else, wake up thats totally bullshit.

[Abriael]

This guys is just so butt hurt he will just not let it go, if they was gonna invite everyone there would not have been an phase where you need to apply. Everyone knew from the get go that everyone was not getting in so just stop saying they could have done this, they don't need every single player they can muster for this phase if they did it would have been an OPEN alpha.

Yoshi-p has stated he understand everyone wants to give feedback but he does not need everyone's feedback for alpha.

translation: "I can't counter what he says so I'll insult him. And will repeat what Yoshida said as a mantra like Yoshida can do no wrong".

Sorry to disappoint: Yes. Yoshida can make mistakes and take wrong decisions. This isn't the first and won't be the last. Despite what some of the most stalwart fanboys think, he's human.

An application would be necessary anyway because not everyone is *interested* in alpha testing. I know several that simply don't have time or consider it a waste of their time as they accumulate no progression from it.

Sending invites to those that aren't interested is a waste of space, so an application would still be useful to gauge interest and to gather data on the testers (rig, connection and so forth).

What they NEED or don't NEED is beyond the point. As Gramul very correctly said, everyone here has been helping them one way or another. That's why they should be given the chance to give their direct feedback on the alpha.

Relationships between a company and customers aren't and shouldn't be based only on what the company needs.

Alpha Test is not to please everyone, its to test certain stuff out and apperently you don't need every single person for that. If you know everything better and can do everything better, pls go ahead and apply to SE.

But there is no point to use these unrealistic theories to complain about not getting in alpha, maybe thats even good cause if you would mess the alpha forums with all your complaints nobody would find the feedback anymore.

Everyone always thinks his feedback is so important and he supports the game so much more then everybody else, wake up thats totally bullshit.

It's refreshing to see that most of those that continue to defend this lopsided selection methods can't really do without personally attacking their counterparts. It easily shows who's right and who knows his arguments are too weak to sustain themselvs.

There's nothing unrealistic about turnovers. It's been done, an SE has all the tools necessary to do them.

Everyone thinks his feedback is important. Guess what? As paying customers, it is.

[Firon]

translation: "I can't counter what he says so I'll insult him. And will repeat what Yoshida said as a mantra like Yoshida can do no wrong".

Sorry to disappoint, yes. Yoshida can make mistakes. This isn't the first and won't be the last. Despite what some of the most stalwart fanboys think he's human.

An application would be necessary anyway because not everyone is *interested* in alpha testing. I know several that simply don't have time or consider it a waste of their time as they accumulate no progression from it.

Sending invites to those that aren't interested is a waste of space, so an application would still be useful to gauge interest and to gather data on the testers (rig, connection and so forth).

What they NEED or don't NEED is beyond the point. As Gramul very correctly said, everyone here has been helping them one way or another. That's why they should be given the chance to give their direct feedback on the alpha.

Relationships between a company and customers aren't and shouldn't be based only on what the company needs.

They have no obligation to invite everyone!!!! none whats so ever get through your fucking head bro. They invited the amount of people they needed that's all there is to understand. I bet if you get invited Monday your bitching on these forums will stop and everything will be sugar and rainbows for you.

So the alpha test should be based on what you need is that what you are saying? Also what mistake did he make not inviting you? Not the whole player base? I'll say it again if he wanted everyone in the alpha it would have been an open alpha. Its like you never been in a alpha for a game before.

Hey guys Microsoft hates their supporters cause they only let a few select people test their upcoming software!!?!?!?!

[Abriael]

They have no obligation to invite everyone!!!! none whats so ever get through your fucking head bro. They invited the amount of people they needed that's all there is to understand. I bet if you get invited Monday your bitching on these forums will stop and everything will be sugar and rainbows for you.

You'd lose the bet, unless they invited *all* those that hold an active account. This has never been about just me, as much you and a few others try your hardest to shift the debate on a personal level.

I'm sure you'll be able to quote where I said they have the "obligation" to do anything. Please. Do try. Humor me. Add as many exclamation marks as you wish too, if you think it makes your point look more solid.

One thing is pointing out an obligation (which as far as I know no one here did) another is pointing out what would be the right and fair thing to do. No one here is holding SE at a gunpoint. Or saying "SE DO WHAT WE WANT OR ELSE!" We're offering criticism. Criticism doesn't involve necessarily involve obligations.

So the alpha test should be based on what you need is that what you are saying?

All customer relations are based on a compromise between what the company needs and what the customer needs. It's the very basic concept of commerce. But thanks for trying to warp my argument because you can't counter it in its original form.

so what mistake did he make not inviting you? Not the whole player base? I'll say it again if he wanted everyone in the alpha it would have been an open alpha. Its like you never been in a alpha for a game before.

The mistake is having left out many of the active subscribers while inviting inactives. Just like other mistakes he did before, like letting everyone in the final event and ruining it for everyone.

Looks like you don't really know what "Open" means. An "open alpha" would let everyone in, regardless of their active status. An alpha that let only active subscribers in wouldn't have been in any way "open".

[Firon]

You'd lose the bet, unless they invited *all* those that hold an active account. This has never been about just me, as much you and a few others try your hardest to shift the debate on a personal level.

I'm sure you'll be able to quote where I said they have the "obligation" to do anything. Please. Do try. Humor me. Add as many exclamation marks as you wish too, if you think it makes your point look more solid.

One thing is pointing out an obligation (which as far as I know no one here did) another is pointing out what would be the right and fair thing to do. No one here is holding SE at a gunpoint. Or saying "SE DO WHAT WE WANT OR ELSE!" We're offering criticism. Criticism doesn't involve necessarily involve obligations.



All customer relations are based on a compromise between what the company needs and what the customer needs. It's the very basic concept of commerce. But thanks for trying to warp my argument because you can't counter it in its original form.

You'r argument still holds no water cause anyone with a half a brain knows anything with a applications does not mean everyone gets in.

[Abriael]

You'r argument still holds no water cause anyone with a half a brain knows anything with a applications does not mean everyone gets in.

Regardless of the very limited readability of the above, if I interpreted it correctly, you're making just another false assumption. An application doesn't necessarily involve a selection. Filling the application in itself can easily be *the* method of selection, and it's a method used rather often in this industry and others.

So yeah, there are plenty cases in which everyone that applies gets accepted, especially if that application is open only to a limited audience in itself. Maybe "everyone with half a brain" should look around a bit more.

[Firon]

Regardless of the very limited readability of the above, if I interpreted it correctly, you're making just another false assumption. An application doesn't necessarily involve a selection. Filling the application in itself can easily be *the* method of selection, and it's a method used rather often in this industry and others.

So yeah, there are plenty cases in which everyone that applies gets accepted, especially if that application is open only to a limited audience in itself.

OK bro you win. /thumbsup I'm tired of going back and forth I mean Ray Charles could not even be this blind.

[SkyeWindbinder]

You'r argument still holds no water cause anyone with a half a brain knows anything with a applications does not mean everyone gets in.

Well, that's assuming Abriael has at least half a brain. lol

But really though, it's gotten quite sad. Abriael is determined to convince the world that SE does not treat their loyal fanbase fairly because not everyone in their fanbase got to experience alpha, despite the clear evidence that makes his argument a steaming fly-covered pile of BS. And what's worse is that there are other people encouraging his rants and temper tantrums. (Likely most of them are more people who also didn't get to experience alpha) Abriael is of the mind that if he and other faboy loyalists of FF14 didn't get into the alpha phase, the game will somehow fail or alpha will not have been done correctly or... you know, the skewed logic of the extremely self-entitled and narcassistic. You know what? I kind of hope he gets invited to beta. Because if he doesn't... Oh god. If you think he's whining now... lol

[Abriael]

Well, that's assuming Abriael has at least half a brain. lol

But really though, it's gotten quite sad. Abriael is determined to convince the world that SE does not treat their loyal fanbase fairly because not everyone in their fanbase got to experience alpha, despite the clear evidence that makes his argument a steaming fly-covered pile of BS. And what's worse is that there are other people encouraging his rants and temper tantrums. (Likely most of them are more people who also didn't get to experience alpha) Abriael is of the mind that if he and other faboy loyalists of FF14 didn't get into the alpha phase, the game will somehow fail or alpha will not have been done correctly or... you know, the skewed logic of the extremely self-entitled and narcassistic. You know what? I kind of hope he gets invited to beta. Because if he doesn't... Oh god. If you think he's whining now... lol

Nice chain of personal attacks. I see you don't lose that habit. By the way, I believe I already told you that "loyalist" doesn't mean what you think it means. This isn't a civil war, as much some overly aggressive people seem to think of it like one and miss no chance to attack their counterpart on a personal level. The word you're looking for is "loyal". It's not the same thing. You're welcome. No charge.

But hey, since you have "clear evidence", let's see it. Because you never once brought anything that could even remotely be defined "evidence" (which is why you continuously resort to personal attacks. If your argument was anywhere solid, you wouldn't need to).

Also, again, please do quote where I said that if I or others don't get in the alpha the "game will somehow fail". Do humor me.

You can't? Oh... too bad.

[EinSoFZ]

As far as applying goes, it'd be best if people saw it like real life when you apply for a job. Sometimes you're qualified, they know you're qualified and you'd do well in the position but there are also a bunch of other qualified people. You might not get it simply because there are so many others who are also able to do the job and have the credentials. On top of that there are office politics which means they' could be going after the person you'd assume would be less qualified (maybe it's a woman, handicapped person, whatever).

All of that is to say that sometimes applying to things isn't a straightforward as it seems or as we'd wish it to be. SE has their own intents with who they actually invite, despite the notion that they really ought to take in dedicated players who they can assume would provide the most useful feedback.

Personally i don't think having played 1.0 should give you any leg up on anything ARR related. Yeah, SE has kind of fibbed about some things but since we can't do anything about it, why not just deal with it? As a business, they're doing what they believe will work for them. When they won't take your money and let you play the retail version, then you can bitch. Until then, you're making a big deal over nothing. Most of all this arguing is really just because some are mad they can't play an incomplete, wire-frame of a game. Silly.