[Reminder] Are you ready to cry again? (2° Wave of Alpha invites tomorrow, 3 dec.)

[Velhart]

Expressing the same thing over and over and over again is considered "Spamming".

Well, people spamming they want something towards an end goal is pretty much how things have worked since the beginning of history. Results may vary.

It is not how many times you express it, it is how well you express it each time.

[Abriael]

And your the one that won't stop repeating yourself.

So are you. Your point?

Consideration is a wonderful word -.-. It's not like your saying it for the first- 10th time this is like 100 times now. Your right I should stop.. but are you giving me a reason to?

Sure I am. I'm providing solid arguments you evidently can't counter. That would be reason enough for someone to stop. But whether you want to stop or not, you sure can't accuse anyone of being a "spammer" when you're actually repeating yourself more than he does.

Still paid for the product.... it was enough money from the sales to fund the game going free for a year so they paid more than enough.

Also just because you paid a sub does not mean you auto get into alpha, you would be crying the same song no matter the outcome anyway.

1: you have no idea where they got the funds for the game to be free for a year. It's not a given that they covered it with box sales. Actually, it's highly improbable.
2: There's a large difference between products and services. With a service that requires a periodic fee, you're a paying customer only as long as you don't discontinue the payiment of that fee. And this is what an MMORPG is. You're not paying for the files included in the disc or for the disc itself, but for the license to use those assets. As soon as you stop paying, the license is interrupted, and with it your status as paying customer.
3: making arbitrary assumptions on what I "would" do doesn't really add any solidity to your argument beside a petty personal attack.

[SkyeWindbinder]

I'm sure they have their reason. Just as much as they had their reasons to release FFXIV the way they did. This doesn't and shouldn't prevent me or anyone else from telling them "hey, SE, your reasons and priorities are all over the place".

The fact that they didn't invite all their most loyal supporter, does, in my opinion, show that they don't value their feedback enough. Other companies manage to do so, so it's possible. They just chose not to, and that's the problem.

Now come on, Abriael, you're comparing apples to step ladders. Having released FF14 in 1.0 is not the same as not inviting all the loyalists in to test beta. That's like saying not inviting all the loyalists in to test beta is the same as the people who steered the Titanic deciding to "Go ahead and plow past that iceburg, it won't hurt anything". FF14 being released as it was was a terrible mistake for many reasons. Not letting all the people who were loyal to FF14 in to test alpha, not so much. At most, they have a few people who are disappointed they didn't get selected to test the alpha stage of a game. Big deal.

Not letting all the loyalists in may mean to you that they don't value the feedback of loyalists enough, but it's just an opinion. One that, of course, I have to disagree with. Besides, what about the loyalists who DID get in? So, according to them, SE does value the opinion of their most loyal fans. See where your argument has laws? Your disappointment is clear. So is mine. But let's not fly off at the handle and judge SE to be "doing it wrong" just because we ddn't all get an invite. As I said before, I'm sure they have their reasons for doing it the way they did. I'm also sure they are aware of who the loyalists are, and I'm sure they knew there'd be some disappointed people who didn't get into alpha. They've dealt with this sort of thing before, I'm sure. They've been around, you know? lol

[Elexia]

It's not fair, but it's their right. Their game, their rules.

Yes, but there's also a concept called bait & switch and bad business practices which if it continues into beta, there's a good chance it will shine an even more negative light onto SE because they're already in a bad spotlight, especially when it comes to XIV.

While B&S is usually in terms of pricing, basically trying to keep people around with the lure they'll be able to participate in it and the exact opposite happens is essentially the same thing. You need an active account to apply, that clearly isn't the case when you do simple searches you can see just as many screenshots of alpha and the forums as well people who admittedly were inactive and got in.

And your the one that won't stop repeating yourself. Consideration is a wonderful word -.-. It's not like your saying it for the first- 10th time this is like 100 times now. Your right I should stop.. but are you giving me a reason to?

Starlord, you do the same god damn thing you're accusing him of. Whether it's to defend SE, apologize for them or to antagonize others, you do the same thing, so it's best to just drop it until you realize you do it yourself because hell, when someone "whines or complains" you're the first person there to call them a crybaby. Yes, Starlord, Criticism is real and it's allowed and yes it comes in the form of repetition because that's how you get concerns heard.

You don't hear about things changing because 1 person says it once and that's it, now do you?

[Starlord]

tarlord, you do the same god damn thing you're accusing him of. Whether it's to defend SE, apologize for them or to antagonize others, you do the same thing, so it's best to just drop it until you realize you do it yourself because hell, when someone "whines or complains" you're the first person there to call them a crybaby. Yes, Starlord, Criticism is real and it's allowed and yes it comes in the form of repetition because that's how you get concerns heard.

You don't hear about things changing because 1 person says it once and that's it, now do you?

Yes I am repeating myself you are indeed correct, but is he even attempting to stop himself? that's the real question here.

Also, if one person is the only one complaining about such things.. don;t you think it's a little pointless to Complain when you don't have a group to follow your cause?

I only see him...

[moriandrio]

When a game requires a periodic fee, if you discontinue paying that fee, you're not a paying customer anymore. That's the difference between a one-time product and a continuated service. MMOs are a service.

Having paid once != Being a paying customer

It's not an excuse. It's a fact.

Are you paying for it right now or did you pay at any time the alpha was running?

[Abriael]

Now come on, Abriael, you're comparing apples to step ladders. Having released FF14 in 1.0 is not the same as not inviting all the loyalists in to test beta. That's like saying not inviting all the loyalists in to test beta is the same as the people who steered the Titanic deciding to "Go ahead and plow past that iceburg, it won't hurt anything". FF14 being released as it was was a terrible mistake for many reasons. Not letting all the people who were loyal to FF14 in to test alpha, not so much. At most, they have a few people who are disappointed they didn't get selected to test the alpha stage of a game. Big deal.

That doesn't really matter. Both are decisions that were made with a reason, and both the decisions and reasons are subject to criticism. That's a paying customer's prerogative.

Not letting all the loyalists in may mean to you that they don't value the feedback of loyalists enough, but it's just an opinion. One that, of course, I have to disagree with. Besides, what about the loyalists who DID get in? So, according to them, SE does value the opinion of their most loyal fans. See where your argument has laws? Your disappointment is clear. So is mine. But let's not fly off at the handle and judge SE to be "doing it wrong" just because we ddn't all get an invite. As I said before, I'm sure they have their reasons for doing it the way they did. I'm also sure they are aware of who the loyalists are, and I'm sure they knew there'd be some disappointed people who didn't get into alpha. They've dealt with this sort of thing before, I'm sure. They've been around, you know? lol

Them having "Been around" didn't prevent them from making mistakes in the past, just as many other companies. Unfortunately experience doesn't work as an automatic vaccine for mistakes.

SE may value the opinion of *a percentage* of their loyal customers. But in my opinion (and obviously I'm not alone there), not allowing *all* their loyal customers to provide proper feedback of the alpha means that they don't have that opinion in a sufficiently high consideration.

Since other companies have managed to pull that off without a hitch. I'm in my right to think that SE isn't doing enough on that front.

Of course it's an opinion. Criticism almost always is.

Are you paying for it right now or did you pay at any time the alpha was running?

When the fee is discontinued by the provider unilaterally the qualification of paying customer isn't lost, unless the service isn't discontinued as well. The service is continuing (and this very forum, to which only paying customers can access, is part of it) and SE suspended billing unilaterally, so the qualification isn't lost.

I only see him...

LOL. You need thick glasses.

There have been several people that have agreed with me, and there continue to be. Your reading is extremely selective according to personal convenience, I see, just as your application of the "spammer" definition.

[ispano]

you said "Yes, instantly. As in their first response to it is "Waahh, stop crying" and the like.".
Since my first response to him was after a while, it didn't count :P

Your first response was an instant "You're crying". Simple as that. Even if it WASN'T the first response, he's doing anything but crying.

[moriandrio]

So all the loyalists that didnt get into alpha and you know is a bunch of ppl that are active in this forum, thats maybe 1% of the active long time player prolly less. You don't even know about all ppl in this thread if they are in or not cause they not allowed to say it without beaking the NDA...

The possibility that there alot loyalists in the alpha is very high, and at the end this is all about that you didnt get in and not all these other ppl. Thats something you point out quite often cause you got invited for all these other games so these Publisher are smart and here you did not get an invitation so SE is dumb....

[Forgo]