Alpha First Look: Video 5 - Quests and Combat

[Katella_Avenlea]

So the thing that I think a few people are missing is this is just an example video of quests and combat... not "in-depth documentation" that represents what all quests will look like. These are beginner quests for goodness sake! Take a breath, they are going to be easy. You don't throw brand new players into the fire immediately

RE: MMO Quests
Pure and simple, the purpose of a quest is to perform some task, (looking at Preypacer) I'm wondering what you really expected here? Quests in any MMO generally have you do one of the following:
* Tutorial - performing an action - learning controls
* Find/Speak to some NPC/object/place
* Defeat enemies
* gather/deliver items.

What more can you make a character in a virtual world do? Seriously? I'm excited to see a lot more of these side quests available personally. They may have similar base goal, but what will make them unique is the stories behind the quests, the atmosphere and the areas you have to brave to find your target goal.

...And why even have the quest dialog in there at all? Hell even the person in the video isn't taking the time to read it. And why bother? They have *3* different indicators showing you exactly where to go for the kill quest, and 2 showing you where to go for the "moist depression".

So the person in the video has a direct purpose. That purpose is to give a "quick" look at questing and combat in an example video. They are more showing off the "where to click" / "How you target/interact with an NPC/mob" aspects rather than truly delving into the example quest.

"Well, we have all this dialog but, you probably won't read it anyway. But, in case you do, you're probably too dumb to figure out where we're directing you to. So, we'll show you on the mini-map. And because you're probably too dumb to realize the circle on the mini-map indicates where you should be, we'll put markers for the mobs on the mini map too. Now don't panic... We know you're too dumb to figure it out even then. We've accounted for that by also putting large markers over the mobs' heads in-game too. You don't even have to know what the mobs are called or what they look like. Just look for the big, intrusive golden markers walking around."

*Sigh* So what you might not realize is that people learn and play in very different ways. Merely having options isn't them patronizing. From what they have said in the past, when ARR actually comes out, that you'll likely find that many of these "extra" markers are actually options that can be turned on or off. Don't like it? Turn it off.. problem solved, No reason to get frustrated.

I'm not sure why people sometimes feel that the way they play should be the "only" option. We should be open minded enough to realize that others may actually find those features helpful and it may improve their personal enjoyment of the game. Maybe it helps them to not feel as lost in a brand new world.. maybe they just want to play and not spend 20 minutes looking up a quest out-of-game to figure out a cryptic and vague summary.

Also, If people like these other feature options, it doesn't mean that they are dumb.. just means their playstyle is different then yours.. and that really is ok. To each their own. If these features help them gain more understanding as to what exactly their character is doing then great! Just because something doesn't fit your playstyle doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option.

Players like to blame, but they have just as much ownership in their own enjoyment level as the developers do. Don't like an option?, turn it off..... Want to get the entirety of the story?... then take a few minutes and read and don't rush through. MMO's just provide the stage, its really up to the player to provide the imagination.

[Kiote]

[COLOR="#9932cc"]So the thing that I think a few people are missing is this is just an example video of quests and combat... not "in-depth documentation" that represents what all quests will look like. These are beginner quests for goodness sake! Take a breath, they are going to be easy. You don't throw brand new players into the fire immediately

RE: MMO Quests
Pure and simple, the purpose of a quest is to perform some task, (looking at Preypacer) I'm wondering what you really expected here? Quests in any MMO generally have you do one of the following:
* Tutorial - performing an action - learning controls
* Find/Speak to some NPC/object/place
* Defeat enemies
* gather/deliver items.

What more can you make a character in a virtual world do?

Here's the thing..

When you play a WoW-like MMO, level progression is always the same.

1. Go to Quest Hub
2. Obtain all Quest in the Area
3. Leave Quest Hub
4. Complete simple Quest Objectives listed above
5. Return to Quest Hub
6. Move to Next Quest Hub

This is mindless, repetitive and boring. Worse than that though, it makes people not want to read the Quests. They serve no purpose but XP. This severely degrades the enjoyability of the game. You might as well be doing an FFXI Party grind. At least in a party grind, your not alone.

The fix, is very simple.

1. Go to NPC Hub
2. Select One Quest
3. Proceed to Location
4. Complete simple Quest Objective
5. Something Dangerous happens
6. Quest Objective - Run for your life
7. Get Saved by something
8. Examine the Previous Danger
9. Get call on your Linkshell from Quest Giver
10. Investigate what caused the danger
11. Get lead to some cool location like a dungeon
12. Unlocks a new area
13. Complete a starter objective in the dungeon
14. Bring your Findings to the NPC

The Quests demonstrated in the Alpha video are the painfully boring cookie cutter WoW-Clone Quests that have destroyed this Genre by turning MMOs in to Single Player games. By simply adding plot twists and adding additional objectives to quests, you remove the boring NPC > Kill > NPC and create a Miniature story progression. Players will become immersed in the world and pushed to explore if the quest spontaneously pushes them away from their original destination and grouping will be Promoted by guiding players to group combat zones or boss fights.

NPC > Kill > NPC is the reason every WoW-Clone has failed to hold the attention of Modern Players.

[ZakarnRosewood]

Here's the thing..

When you play a WoW-like MMO, level progression is always the same.

1. Go to Quest Hub
2. Obtain all Quest in the Area
3. Leave Quest Hub
4. Complete simple Quest Objectives listed above
5. Return to Quest Hub
6. Move to Next Quest Hub

This is mindless, repetitive and boring. Worse than that though, it makes people not want to read the Quests. They serve no purpose but XP. This severely degrades the enjoyability of the game. You might as well be doing an FFXI Party grind. At least in a party grind, your not alone.

The fix, is very simple.

1. Go to NPC Hub
2. Select One Quest
3. Proceed to Location
4. Complete simple Quest Objective
5. Something Dangerous happens
6. Quest Objective - Run for your life
7. Get Saved by something
8. Examine the Previous Danger
9. Get call on your Linkshell from Quest Giver
10. Investigate what caused the danger
11. Get lead to some cool location like a dungeon
12. Unlocks a new area
13. Complete a starter objective in the dungeon
14. Bring your Findings to the NPC

The Quests demonstrated in the Alpha video are the painfully boring cookie cutter WoW-Clone Quests that have destroyed this Genre by turning MMOs in to Single Player games. By simply adding plot twists and adding additional objectives to quests, you remove the boring NPC > Kill > NPC and create a Miniature story progression. Players will become immersed in the world and pushed to explore if the quest spontaneously pushes them away from their original destination and grouping will be Promoted by guiding players to group combat zones or boss fights.

NPC > Kill > NPC is the reason every WoW-Clone has failed to hold the attention of Modern Players.

and you are sure they wont have detailed quests like this in ARR based on.... the 5 min video?

[Kiote]

and you are sure they wont have detailed quests like this in ARR based on.... the 5 min video?

It's not about being sure. Forums are about feedback and debate. Silence Means Concession. I don't know if they are only doing simple WoW-clone quest, but I'm not going to sit by quietly while they demonstrate that they are doing them at all.

[Skies]

1. Go to NPC Hub
2. Select One Quest
3. Proceed to Location
4. Complete simple Quest Objective
5. Something Dangerous happens
6. Quest Objective - Run for your life
7. Get Saved by something
8. Examine the Previous Danger
9. Get call on your Linkshell from Quest Giver
10. Investigate what caused the danger
11. Get lead to some cool location like a dungeon
12. Unlocks a new area
13. Complete a starter objective in the dungeon
14. Bring your Findings to the NPC

Isn't what you said there basically what's below?

1. Go to Quest Hub
2. Obtain one Quest in the Area
3. Leave Quest Hub
4. Complete simple Quest Objectives listed above
7. Return to Quest Hub

Only difference I saw was that you detailed the objectives in the quest. Kill Monsters, Trigger Object, Kill Monster/Trigger Object/Zone, Kill Monster/Trigger Object was basically all that you did.

[Reika]

Isn't what you said there basically what's below?

1. Go to Quest Hub
2. Obtain one Quest in the Area
3. Leave Quest Hub
4. Complete simple Quest Objectives listed above
7. Return to Quest Hub

Only difference I saw was that you detailed the objectives in the quest. Kill Monsters, Trigger Object, Kill Monster/Trigger Object/Zone, Kill Monster/Trigger Object was basically all that you did.

His example is really one of taking one quest at a time instead of many. he's free to do one quest at a time if he wants, no ones forcing anyone to take all of them at once. Make it take as long as you like.

I said this same thing when people were bitching about the amount of quests TERA has.... you DO NOT need to do side quests. It's ones own OCD that forces obtain every single yellow ! quest in the area instead of the orange !.

[Kiote]

Isn't what you said there basically what's below?

1. Go to Quest Hub
2. Obtain one Quest in the Area
3. Leave Quest Hub
4. Complete simple Quest Objectives listed above
7. Return to Quest Hub

Only difference I saw was that you detailed the objectives in the quest. Kill Monsters, Trigger Object, Kill Monster/Trigger Object/Zone, Kill Monster/Trigger Object was basically all that you did.

No, there is a massive difference. What I wrote out is an Example of a Quest with progression. The WoW-like quests they demoed in this Video have no progression at all. They are nothing more than XP throw aways.

[Shurrikhan]

The fix, is very simple.

1. Go to NPC Hub
2. Select One Quest
3. Proceed to Location
4. Complete simple Quest Objective
5. Something Dangerous happens
6. Quest Objective - Run for your life
7. Get Saved by something
8. Examine the Previous Danger
9. Get call on your Linkshell from Quest Giver
10. Investigate what caused the danger
11. Get lead to some cool location like a dungeon
12. Unlocks a new area
13. Complete a starter objective in the dungeon
14. Bring your Findings to the NPC

But, but, this might feel something like actual Final Fantasy plot progressing quests...

[Linkurrra]

Here's the thing..

When you play a WoW-like MMO, level progression is always the same.

1. Go to Quest Hub
2. Obtain all Quest in the Area
3. Leave Quest Hub
4. Complete simple Quest Objectives listed above
5. Return to Quest Hub
6. Move to Next Quest Hub

This is mindless, repetitive and boring. Worse than that though, it makes people not want to read the Quests. They serve no purpose but XP. This severely degrades the enjoyability of the game. You might as well be doing an FFXI Party grind. At least in a party grind, your not alone.

The fix, is very simple.

1. Go to NPC Hub
2. Select One Quest
3. Proceed to Location
4. Complete simple Quest Objective
5. Something Dangerous happens
6. Quest Objective - Run for your life
7. Get Saved by something
8. Examine the Previous Danger
9. Get call on your Linkshell from Quest Giver
10. Investigate what caused the danger
11. Get lead to some cool location like a dungeon
12. Unlocks a new area
13. Complete a starter objective in the dungeon
14. Bring your Findings to the NPC

The Quests demonstrated in the Alpha video are the painfully boring cookie cutter WoW-Clone Quests that have destroyed this Genre by turning MMOs in to Single Player games. By simply adding plot twists and adding additional objectives to quests, you remove the boring NPC > Kill > NPC and create a Miniature story progression. Players will become immersed in the world and pushed to explore if the quest spontaneously pushes them away from their original destination and grouping will be Promoted by guiding players to group combat zones or boss fights.

NPC > Kill > NPC is the reason every WoW-Clone has failed to hold the attention of Modern Players.

Umm, what you described was a quest chain. How do you know that in the video that was shown wasn't smaller quests in a quest chain?

And one thing I would like to add, in how quests should flow. Is that some of the quests in the Quest chain have a no win scenario. Where you make a decision and it sends you off on a different quest path because of that decision.

Quests that put value in your actions are the most rewarding. Sure they are time consuming, but it makes things interesting.

And one thing to note about FFXIV, is that since we have one character, it would be nice if you could repeat these quests and pick the different path to take. The NPC just needs to notice that you are repeating the quest and say,
"Welcome back!, decided to take another stab at this quest?"

I would just prefer if the NPC, required you to complete the entire quest chain before you can complete it. That way you can come back with your lvl 15 Pug, Gla, Arc and do the quest but make different decisions to see a different outcome. Such quests take time to plan out carefully, but are worth the effort!

[TomCarroll]

Umm, what you described was a quest chain. How do you know that in the video that was shown wasn't smaller quests in a quest chain?

And one thing I would like to add, in how quests should flow. Is that some of the quests in the Quest chain have a no win scenario. Where you make a decision and it sends you off on a different quest path because of that decision.

Quests that put value in your actions are the most rewarding. Sure they are time consuming, but it makes things interesting.

And one thing to note about FFXIV, is that since we have one character, it would be nice if you could repeat these quests and pick the different path to take. The NPC just needs to notice that you are repeating the quest and say,
"Welcome back!, decided to take another stab at this quest?"

I would just prefer if the NPC, required you to complete the entire quest chain before you can complete it. That way you can come back with your lvl 15 Pug, Gla, Arc and do the quest but make different decisions to see a different outcome. Such quests take time to plan out carefully, but are worth the effort!

THIS. THIS. A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.

Most people haven't realized that this is currently what's happening in World of Warcraft. Quests aren't nearly as throw-away as they used to be, and to some degree they're almost engaging. Daily Quests still suck though.