Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

[Azurus]

i think people just need to look at it differently and it all can work, give a gladiator a different weapon and he has a different skill set. instead of thinking class tied to weapon, think job/skills tied to weapon, the class just has 2 different ways to play it. hell its as easy as making 2 "classes" both called gladiator, the only thing is if u equip a 2 hander u have the one gladiators skills, u switch to sword and shield u become the other gladiator. I think this system would appease everyone.

[Velhart]

I'm going to side with reality here and say that the class system is here to stay.

You may not like it, but them's the breaks. You're welcome not to play, or to invest a little faith in Yoshida and his team after all of his hard work and actually give him time to work this system into something better than what we had in 1.xx.

Personally, I don't expect the class/job system to be fully evolved in ARR and I don't really care. I enjoy the current system and I'm glad they have the groundwork to add more depth to it.

The one thing people don't realize that restricting it just the job system hamstrings the potential growth of this game. Instead of Job and Class quests it's just Job quests, instead of Job based items and roles and class based items and roles it's just one. You're narrowing your scope for the sake of being a unique little snowflake.

Any and all limitations by having a dual system like class and Job can be overcome by simply expanding on it. Issues with Dark Knight attached to Gladiator can be lifted by creating a secondary weapon type for each class (Greatsword for the case of Gladiator) and given that we wanted a diversified weapon system in this game, this fufills a request while adding further depth to the system as a whole.

In the end my plea is to give this guy some time. He just spent the entirety of two years making a game that should have taken him five, given the normally yield of games out of Square Enix's internal development. It's going to be vanilla version all over again so keep that in mind with the base systems.

So it's going to be a while before we see the fruits of this labor develop. For now, just think of the classes as sub-forms of the jobs and leave it be at that.

Well said. People should realize that a job simply expands a specific role of the class itself. Enhancing your ability to take on that role in parties. Dragoon for example in the current version, the only difference between that and a Lancer is that it gets a few more abilities and an increase in DPS power. At it's core, it is still using the Lancer concepts.

(*Warning to those who like to steer off discussion, these are only examples I came up with from a good source called my imagination, don't think otherwise*) You can give that Lancer a different role like uhh...lets say Samurai for the hell of it. You can either give him a GK or spear and make him a parry tank that focuses on WS's to hold hate and increase their VIT. At it's core though, it will be a Lancer that has only enhanced it's abilities in one area with a few extra things to work with to keep hate. Think of the Lancer itself as the between. It's survivability is better than a Dragoon's, but it's DPS is better than a tanking Samurai.

tl;dr No matter what job you slap on a class, ultimately at it's core it is still that class, just enhanced in a certain role.

We are not saying there will be 2-3 jobs per class, but this type of system opens up possibilities for various roles(jobs) for one class.

Even though I currently have everything at 50. It would feel nice if I was a new player and leveled a class to 50 and knew I had choices within that class. Like if there was a class that offered a DPS and tanking job. Depending on what my party wants me, I can slap one on or the other.

[Thebard]

I wonder what the actual reason for not scrapping the armoury system entirely is? It certainly wasn't because it was this great unique system that everyone likes and is better than in any other MMO thats for sure.

[Velhart]

I wonder what the actual reason for not scrapping the armoury system entirely is? It certainly wasn't because it was this great unique system that everyone likes and is better than in any other MMO thats for sure.

Because the Armory System itself is not a bad concept at all, and was actually one of the current FFXIV's better qualities at release. However, the old team poorly balanced it and was not being used in their intentions. Even after many fixes, the system itself was great, but pretty awful to balance (Like the whole PLD vs. WAR thing during CC/AV prime.), but the content itself was in fault also on that one. Starting clean in 2.0 however, they have the opportunity to take a crack at the Armory System again and not only make it work well, but actually make it better than it ever was (hopefully).

[Thebard]

Because the Armory System itself is not a bad concept at all, and was actually one of the current FFXIV's better qualities at release. However, the old team poorly balanced it and was not being used in their intentions. Even after many fixes, the system itself was great, but pretty awful to balance (Like the whole PLD vs. WAR thing during CC/AV prime.), but the content itself was in fault also on that one. Starting clean in 2.0 however, they have the opportunity to take a crack at the Armory System again and not only make it work well, but actually make it better than it ever was (hopefully).

Sorry can't agree.
The armoury system didn't work, DoL & DoH were supposed to be on an equal footing with DoW & DoM and participate alongside them, it didn't take long before it was clear that was dumb idea.
Then they added jobs, which the armoury system was never meant to have at all. Why did they add them? Because the armoury system was a failure and people were crying.
If you like the armoury system thats fine, but don't tell me its good because it never worked from day one.

What you have given me is not the real reason its the fanboy/white knight reason.

[GodseijuroHiko]

i think people just need to look at it differently and it all can work, give a gladiator a different weapon and he has a different skill set. instead of thinking class tied to weapon, think job/skills tied to weapon, the class just has 2 different ways to play it. hell its as easy as making 2 "classes" both called gladiator, the only thing is if u equip a 2 hander u have the one gladiators skills, u switch to sword and shield u become the other gladiator. I think this system would appease everyone.

That sounds very FFXI-ish

A sam with a polearm was still a sam, but he had that sweet penta thrust

Not a bad idea honestly. If they find a way to keep classes and work jobs out, man this game is going to be very GODLY. That's just this man's opinion.

[Velhart]

Sorry can't agree.
The armoury system didn't work, DoL & DoH were supposed to be on an equal footing with DoW & DoM and participate alongside them, it didn't take long before it was clear that was dumb idea.
Then they added jobs, which the armoury system was never meant to have at all. Why did they add them? Because the armoury system was a failure and people were crying.
If you like the armoury system thats fine, but don't tell me its good because it never worked from day one.

What you have given me is not the real reason its the fanboy/white knight reason.

Well didn't you read what I said? I said the idea and concept of the Armory System is great, but it had poor execution. A "It sounds better on paper." type of thing. The better quality I refer to is the freedom of choice at any given time on one character, which a rare plus in the MMO industry. It just failed to meet it's goal to be a working system, but that doesn't mean it can't be fixed and improved. The job system was a step in the right direction because it helped better define your role in the party. Was it perfect? No, it came with it's set backs because it was still dealing with the original system in a way.

2.0 is a fresh start and gives them the opportunity to again make a good Armory System that won't be plagued with horrible imbalance and segregation of jobs in parties. Can I tell you it will be successful and proves you can fix a some-what broken system? No. Actually that may be too harsh, because it wasn't "that bad", but give SE the benefit of the doubt this time, I am sure they wouldn't implement it again if it couldn't balance itself properly.

[GodseijuroHiko]

Sorry can't agree.
The armoury system didn't work, DoL & DoH were supposed to be on an equal footing with DoW & DoM and participate alongside them, it didn't take long before it was clear that was dumb idea.
Then they added jobs, which the armoury system was never meant to have at all. Why did they add them? Because the armoury system was a failure and people were crying.
If you like the armoury system thats fine, but don't tell me its good because it never worked from day one.

What you have given me is not the real reason its the fanboy/white knight reason.

What you said is partly true. Honestly though, the armory system, or it's intent, was one of the better qualities of the game. Swapping abilities to forge your own role. Sweet idea. That's what I think he meant. Yet since the game's foundation was so bad as we all know, even the good things about the game fell through.

[syntaxlies]

What you said is partly true. Honestly though, the armory system, or it's intent, was one of the better qualities of the game. Swapping abilities to forge your own role. Sweet idea. That's what I think he meant. Yet since the game's foundation was so bad as we all know, even the good things about the game fell through.

No, actually it was changed because the players complained about it. That's why it has many more limitations now. Skills were like pokemon, gotta catch them all to make one good class. This made every class feel the same which was bad.

[Shougun]

No, actually it was changed because the players complained about it. That's why it has many more limitations now. Skills were like pokemon, gotta catch them all to make one good class. This made every class feel the same which was bad.

And Yoshi wanted class individuality himself, he thought it was hard to tell them apart as well. (Just saying it wasnt just players).