Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

[Thebard]

I wonder what the actual reason for not scrapping the armoury system entirely is? It certainly wasn't because it was this great unique system that everyone likes and is better than in any other MMO thats for sure.

[Velhart]

I wonder what the actual reason for not scrapping the armoury system entirely is? It certainly wasn't because it was this great unique system that everyone likes and is better than in any other MMO thats for sure.

Because the Armory System itself is not a bad concept at all, and was actually one of the current FFXIV's better qualities at release. However, the old team poorly balanced it and was not being used in their intentions. Even after many fixes, the system itself was great, but pretty awful to balance (Like the whole PLD vs. WAR thing during CC/AV prime.), but the content itself was in fault also on that one. Starting clean in 2.0 however, they have the opportunity to take a crack at the Armory System again and not only make it work well, but actually make it better than it ever was (hopefully).

[Thebard]

Because the Armory System itself is not a bad concept at all, and was actually one of the current FFXIV's better qualities at release. However, the old team poorly balanced it and was not being used in their intentions. Even after many fixes, the system itself was great, but pretty awful to balance (Like the whole PLD vs. WAR thing during CC/AV prime.), but the content itself was in fault also on that one. Starting clean in 2.0 however, they have the opportunity to take a crack at the Armory System again and not only make it work well, but actually make it better than it ever was (hopefully).

Sorry can't agree.
The armoury system didn't work, DoL & DoH were supposed to be on an equal footing with DoW & DoM and participate alongside them, it didn't take long before it was clear that was dumb idea.
Then they added jobs, which the armoury system was never meant to have at all. Why did they add them? Because the armoury system was a failure and people were crying.
If you like the armoury system thats fine, but don't tell me its good because it never worked from day one.

What you have given me is not the real reason its the fanboy/white knight reason.

[Velhart]

Sorry can't agree.
The armoury system didn't work, DoL & DoH were supposed to be on an equal footing with DoW & DoM and participate alongside them, it didn't take long before it was clear that was dumb idea.
Then they added jobs, which the armoury system was never meant to have at all. Why did they add them? Because the armoury system was a failure and people were crying.
If you like the armoury system thats fine, but don't tell me its good because it never worked from day one.

What you have given me is not the real reason its the fanboy/white knight reason.

Well didn't you read what I said? I said the idea and concept of the Armory System is great, but it had poor execution. A "It sounds better on paper." type of thing. The better quality I refer to is the freedom of choice at any given time on one character, which a rare plus in the MMO industry. It just failed to meet it's goal to be a working system, but that doesn't mean it can't be fixed and improved. The job system was a step in the right direction because it helped better define your role in the party. Was it perfect? No, it came with it's set backs because it was still dealing with the original system in a way.

2.0 is a fresh start and gives them the opportunity to again make a good Armory System that won't be plagued with horrible imbalance and segregation of jobs in parties. Can I tell you it will be successful and proves you can fix a some-what broken system? No. Actually that may be too harsh, because it wasn't "that bad", but give SE the benefit of the doubt this time, I am sure they wouldn't implement it again if it couldn't balance itself properly.

[Jynx]

Well didn't you read what I said? I said the idea and concept of the Armory System is great, but it had poor execution.

Personally I don't see any way to implement the Armory system well without it causing either massive restrictions, or massive homogony.

Classes at launch were "Jack of all trades" for everything it made the meele/mage classes boil down to not being able to do much unique. Now that they adressed the uniqueness with jobs the class system is hampering that very direction directly, you can't do it half way or both systems will just feel half baked.

[Velhart]

Personally I don't see any way to implement the Armory system well without it causing either massive restrictions, or massive homogony.

Classes at launch were "Jack of all trades" for everything it made the meele/mage classes boil down to not being able to do much unique. Now that they adressed the uniqueness with jobs the class system is hampering that very direction directly, you can't do it half way or both systems will just feel half baked.

I don't see how they will do it either, but hey, I guess that is why I don't work for SE. I'm sure their lead battle programmers have come up with something that works out well and helps you keep better management of balance in classes/jobs.

[Shougun]

I don't see how they will do it either, but hey, I guess that is why I don't work for SE. I'm sure their lead battle programmers have come up with something that works out well and helps you keep better management of balance in classes/jobs.

How Yoshida talks and works thus far it does seem so (the team has a plan). But its always better to be skeptical about things that are practically impossible to change in hind sight (like a battle system). 4 Years from now SE going "The system sucks.. woops" wouldnt be any good lol.

[GodseijuroHiko]

Sorry can't agree.
The armoury system didn't work, DoL & DoH were supposed to be on an equal footing with DoW & DoM and participate alongside them, it didn't take long before it was clear that was dumb idea.
Then they added jobs, which the armoury system was never meant to have at all. Why did they add them? Because the armoury system was a failure and people were crying.
If you like the armoury system thats fine, but don't tell me its good because it never worked from day one.

What you have given me is not the real reason its the fanboy/white knight reason.

What you said is partly true. Honestly though, the armory system, or it's intent, was one of the better qualities of the game. Swapping abilities to forge your own role. Sweet idea. That's what I think he meant. Yet since the game's foundation was so bad as we all know, even the good things about the game fell through.

[syntaxlies]

What you said is partly true. Honestly though, the armory system, or it's intent, was one of the better qualities of the game. Swapping abilities to forge your own role. Sweet idea. That's what I think he meant. Yet since the game's foundation was so bad as we all know, even the good things about the game fell through.

No, actually it was changed because the players complained about it. That's why it has many more limitations now. Skills were like pokemon, gotta catch them all to make one good class. This made every class feel the same which was bad.

[Shougun]

No, actually it was changed because the players complained about it. That's why it has many more limitations now. Skills were like pokemon, gotta catch them all to make one good class. This made every class feel the same which was bad.

And Yoshi wanted class individuality himself, he thought it was hard to tell them apart as well. (Just saying it wasnt just players).