[Request] Completely Revamped MATERIA SYSTEM! Idea for NO Gambling Mechanics.

[Preypacer]

And even if the triple meld will be the max, i think it's more balanced than now,
where people that cannot afford gambling just have 1x meld gear, while people that made gils by botting, or buying, or capped money at release where a levequest was worth 100k + , have 2x, x3 or even more melded gear...

I saw issues (as noted by others) in your suggestions to begin with, but that bit right there is where you lost me entirely.

What that demonstrates is that your suggestions are fueled, at some level, on a bitterness toward others who have obtained something you haven't yet, or who have more than you.

To automatically accuse anyone who's had more success in obtaining gil as "botting", "buying" or "with capped money at re-release" just screams dismissively of "I'm jealous of people who have more than I do".

You know many people earned their gil 100% legitimately, right? Through crafting, selling lots on the market, not blowing their money on lots of "little stuff", etc? Way to just categorically insult anyone who's played the game legitimately, just to soothe your own jealousy issues.

And by the way, I say this as someone who doesn't have a lot of gil either. I "ended" 1.0 with about 800k on my character. That's it. I'm not jealous when I see someone with a healthier in-game bank account than me, because I know I can get just as much as they have if I put in the effort. I don't expect SE to change the game so I don't have to.

I had a hunch there was some ulterior motive fueling your suggestions... and bingo. You just came right out and revealed it.

SE should make the system more "predictable", so you don't have to work harder at making the kind of gil that more affluent players have. Rather than trying to find ways to increase your gil gains (which it seems you never even really considered, since you immediately categorize them as "botters", "buyers" or "with max gil at 2.0 launch") to give yourself the same # of attempts, at the same risk level as others, you want SE to change the system to suit you, so you don't have to.

100% Transparent.

[Aion]

if they consider keep the RNG part, at least mask it with mini games....

[Dragonheart]

I saw issues (as noted by others) in your suggestions to begin with, but that bit right there is where you lost me entirely.

What that demonstrates is that your suggestions are fueled, at some level, on a bitterness toward others who have obtained something you haven't yet, or who have more than you.

To automatically accuse anyone who's had more success in obtaining gil as "botting", "buying" or "with capped money at re-release" just screams dismissively of "I'm jealous of people who have more than I do".

You know many people earned their gil 100% legitimately, right? Through crafting, selling lots on the market, not blowing their money on lots of "little stuff", etc? Way to just categorically insult anyone who's played the game legitimately, just to soothe your own jealousy issues.

I had a hunch there was some ulterior motive fueling your suggestions... and bingo. You just came right out and revealed it.

SE should make the system more "predictable", so you don't have to work harder at making the kind of gil that more affluent players have. Rather than trying to find ways to increase your gil gains (which it seems you never even really considered, since you immediately categorize them as "botters", "buyers" or "with max gil at 2.0 launch") to give yourself the same # of attempts, at the same risk level as others, you want SE to change the system to suit you, so you don't have to.

100% Transparent.

Of course i know that not anyone made gils by botting, buying them etc. !

What i was trying to say, is that the money shouldn't influence too much the players power!

I DON'T want to see in future The Rare/EX bahamut's cuirass worse than a cobalt cuirass with 4 materia on it.

That's what i'm trying to say... In FFXIV the money, can influence too much the players power. And this a great problem imho.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

There's a crucial point in this you not considered: they already confirmed they reworked stats in a fashion where multi-melds wouldn't be such powerfull, so your idea money = power is already faulted. It's one of the reasons they're raising melding rate

[Dragonheart]

There's a crucial point in this you not considered: they already confirmed they reworked stats in a fashion where multi-melds wouldn't be such powerfull, so your idea money = power is already faulted. It's one of the reasons they're raising melding rate

Raising the melding rate, will result the same as now.

Who can't afford too much multiple meld, will be more motivated to do a 2x maybe.

But at the same time, who did 2-3x even in the current game, will be more motivated to try even more...

At least i hope that the hard modes gear, will be at par or slightly superior of crafted gear with 3 materias.

Again, i don't want to see a bahamut's armor weaker than a lucky cobalt with x3 meld...

[Preypacer]

Of course i know that not anyone made gils by botting, buying them etc. !

What i was trying to say, is that the money shouldn't influence too much the players power!

I DON'T want to see in future The Rare/EX bahamut's cuirass worse than a cobalt cuirass with 4 materia on it.

That's what i'm trying to say... In FFXIV the money, can influence too much the players power. And this a great problem imho.

First, you're back-pedaling. The bit I quoted in your last post quite specifically indicated that, to you, anyone who has fully melded gear automatically botted or bought their money. Or, that they had max gil at ARR's launch due to how much they had at the end of 1.0... as though that's some kind of criminal act.

I disagree. I used to play Lineage 2, a game that had an over-enchant system that worked very similarly to Materia in its base concept. You could go up to +3 without fear of failing. Once you started going for +4 and up (the max was +16, as I recall), you ran the risk of failing. If you failed, your item blew up, you lost your enchant scroll, and you got back a pile of crystals.

People voiced the same concerns as you - that people with more money were OP'd because they could afford more attempts. And like you, they accused those who succeeded of being botters or buyers, etc. The same jealousy at work.

The fact is, those who had higher enchant items also lost far more items on failed attempts, and blew through far more money. They were also smarter about doing it, made sure they had back-ups of what they wanted to enchant and that they could afford their attempts. They had a means of reliably making enough money to sustain their attempts. They learned how to play the market, learning what sells, taking advantage of "buying sprees" that would happen during in-game events, etc.

Also bear in mind, it wasn't only a lot of money, but a lot of time that went into them getting those items enchanted all the way up successfully. They were very patient, and often made it a long-term project to get a +16.

And the same thing happened there. People who didn't know the market or who otherwise didn't want to know the market or put any effort into learning how to earn the money for themselves, instead complained that it wasn't fair that others got +16 items, while they could only afford to get +3 or maybe +4, and that the system was flawed and should be changed.

NC never changed it. Why? Because it had been proven that every single person playing that game had the same opportunities, the same means and the same odds of doing it for themselves. It wasn't a flaw in the design that prevented them from getting what they wanted - it was their own risk-averse, lazy, self-entitled attitudes that did.

If someone has put the time into earning enough money to pay for the attempts necessary to get their gear fully melded, and they've done it legitimately.. then they deserve it. They had the same odds, risks and requirements as everyone else... they played those odds, and ultimately succeeded.

I won't even go into people buying their gil to pay for what they do, because the response to SE for that is: Get the Anti-RMT team in full effect in XIV like they did in XI and wipe them out. A game's systems should never be designed or balanced around the idea that people are going to RMT their money.

[Dragonheart]

I disagree. I used to play Lineage 2, a game that had an over-enchant system that worked very similarly to Materia in its base concept. You could go up to +3 without fear of failing. Once you started going for +4 and up (the max was +16, as I recall), you ran the risk of failing. If you failed, your item blew up, you lost your enchant scroll, and you got back a pile of crystals.

People voiced the same concerns as you - that people with more money were OP'd because they could afford more attempts. And like you, they accused those who succeeded of being botters or buyers, etc. The same jealousy at work.

The fact is, those who had higher enchant items also lost far more items on failed attempts, and blew through far more money. They were also smarter about doing it, made sure they had back-ups of what they wanted to enchant and that they could afford their attempts. They had a means of reliably making enough money to sustain their attempts. They learned how to play the market, learning what sells, taking advantage of "buying sprees" that would happen during in-game events, etc.

Also bear in mind, it wasn't only a lot of money, but a lot of time that went into them getting those items enchanted all the way up successfully.

And the same thing happened there. People who didn't know the market or who otherwise didn't want to know the market or put any effort into learning how to earn the money for themselves, instead complained that it wasn't fair that others got +16 items, while they could only afford to get +3 or maybe +4, and that the system was flawed and should be changed.

NC never changed it. Why? Because it had been proven that every single person playing that game had the same opportunities, the same means and the same odds of doing it for themselves. It wasn't a flaw in the design that prevented them from getting what they wanted - it was their own lazy, self-entitled attitudes that did.

If someone has put the time into earning enough money to pay for the attempts necessary to get their gear fully melded, and they've done it legitimately.. then they deserve it. They had the same odds, risks and requirements as everyone else... they played those odds, and ultimately succeeded.

I won't even go into people buying their gil to pay for what they do, because the response to SE for that is: Get the Anti-RMT team in full effect in XIV like they did in XI and wipe them out. A game's systems should never be designed or balanced around the idea that people are going to RMT their money.

I'm ok with people like you that like the gambling mechanics.

But at the same time, I pretend that the gear obtained by a real hard encounter (like future hard modes), should reward me at the par or a little more than someone who just got luck in crafting and melding, without fight anything.

[Preypacer]

I'm ok with people like you that like the gambling mechanics.

But at the same time, I pretend that the gear obtained by a real hard encounter (like future hard modes), should reward me at the par or a little more than someone who just got luck in crafting and melding, without fight anything.

There you go again.. dismissing the effort that goes into getting a successfully fully melded item.
1. You have to be using gear for it to spirit bond and produce materia. The most common means of doing that? Fighting stuff. You know those SB parties people would put together in strongholds and such? Yeah.. they were actually fighting stuff. Not sitting around a camp-fire singing kumbaya.
2. You have to spirit bond, potentially, many items to get the materia you're after. Again... that requires being active with that gear, such as fighting.
3. Alternatively, you can buy the materia... how do you earn gil to buy materia? By doing stuff... which means either crafting and selling your goods, questing, etc. etc.
4. You run the risk of losing your materials during the meld process, which results in having to go through the process again... that means more time and/or money.

And so on...

You are still trying to argue for your idea, by dismissing or ignoring the time and effort that others put into getting full melds with the current system. You don't want to face that kind of risk, so you're asking SE to change it. Again, 100% transparent.

[Dragonheart]

There you go again.. dismissing the effort that goes into getting a successfully fully melded item.
1. You have to be using gear for it to spirit bond and produce materia. The most common means of doing that? Fighting stuff. You know those SB parties people would put together in strongholds and such? Yeah.. they were actually fighting stuff. Not sitting around a camp-fire singing kumbaya.
2. You have to spirit bond, potentially, many items to get the materia you're after. Again... that requires being active with that gear, such as fighting.
3. Alternatively, you can buy the materia... how do you earn gil to buy materia? By doing stuff... which means either crafting and selling your goods, questing, etc. etc.
4. You run the risk of losing your materials during the meld process, which results in having to go through the process again... that means more time and/or money.

And so on...

You are still trying to argue for your idea, by dismissing or ignoring the time and effort that others put into getting full melds with the current system. You don't want to face that kind of risk, so you're asking SE to change it. Again, 100% transparent.

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm just saying that if the system remain the same, I want to be rewarded at least on par of a multiple melded gear.

Crafted multiple melded and gears obtained by doing hard encounters (fighting for spirit bond is hard...? Just tedious)
should be AT LEAST on par (and imho slightly superior). That's simple my idea.

But it seems that you want crafted melded gear to be more powerful than rare/ex, so you're the opposite of me then :P

[Syrokko]

Not sure if OP is new to the MMO genre...