[Request] Completely Revamped MATERIA SYSTEM! Idea for NO Gambling Mechanics.

[Preypacer]

And even if the triple meld will be the max, i think it's more balanced than now,
where people that cannot afford gambling just have 1x meld gear, while people that made gils by botting, or buying, or capped money at release where a levequest was worth 100k + , have 2x, x3 or even more melded gear...

I saw issues (as noted by others) in your suggestions to begin with, but that bit right there is where you lost me entirely.

What that demonstrates is that your suggestions are fueled, at some level, on a bitterness toward others who have obtained something you haven't yet, or who have more than you.

To automatically accuse anyone who's had more success in obtaining gil as "botting", "buying" or "with capped money at re-release" just screams dismissively of "I'm jealous of people who have more than I do".

You know many people earned their gil 100% legitimately, right? Through crafting, selling lots on the market, not blowing their money on lots of "little stuff", etc? Way to just categorically insult anyone who's played the game legitimately, just to soothe your own jealousy issues.

And by the way, I say this as someone who doesn't have a lot of gil either. I "ended" 1.0 with about 800k on my character. That's it. I'm not jealous when I see someone with a healthier in-game bank account than me, because I know I can get just as much as they have if I put in the effort. I don't expect SE to change the game so I don't have to.

I had a hunch there was some ulterior motive fueling your suggestions... and bingo. You just came right out and revealed it.

SE should make the system more "predictable", so you don't have to work harder at making the kind of gil that more affluent players have. Rather than trying to find ways to increase your gil gains (which it seems you never even really considered, since you immediately categorize them as "botters", "buyers" or "with max gil at 2.0 launch") to give yourself the same # of attempts, at the same risk level as others, you want SE to change the system to suit you, so you don't have to.

100% Transparent.

[Dragonheart]

I saw issues (as noted by others) in your suggestions to begin with, but that bit right there is where you lost me entirely.

What that demonstrates is that your suggestions are fueled, at some level, on a bitterness toward others who have obtained something you haven't yet, or who have more than you.

To automatically accuse anyone who's had more success in obtaining gil as "botting", "buying" or "with capped money at re-release" just screams dismissively of "I'm jealous of people who have more than I do".

You know many people earned their gil 100% legitimately, right? Through crafting, selling lots on the market, not blowing their money on lots of "little stuff", etc? Way to just categorically insult anyone who's played the game legitimately, just to soothe your own jealousy issues.

I had a hunch there was some ulterior motive fueling your suggestions... and bingo. You just came right out and revealed it.

SE should make the system more "predictable", so you don't have to work harder at making the kind of gil that more affluent players have. Rather than trying to find ways to increase your gil gains (which it seems you never even really considered, since you immediately categorize them as "botters", "buyers" or "with max gil at 2.0 launch") to give yourself the same # of attempts, at the same risk level as others, you want SE to change the system to suit you, so you don't have to.

100% Transparent.

Of course i know that not anyone made gils by botting, buying them etc. !

What i was trying to say, is that the money shouldn't influence too much the players power!

I DON'T want to see in future The Rare/EX bahamut's cuirass worse than a cobalt cuirass with 4 materia on it.

That's what i'm trying to say... In FFXIV the money, can influence too much the players power. And this a great problem imho.

[Preypacer]

Of course i know that not anyone made gils by botting, buying them etc. !

What i was trying to say, is that the money shouldn't influence too much the players power!

I DON'T want to see in future The Rare/EX bahamut's cuirass worse than a cobalt cuirass with 4 materia on it.

That's what i'm trying to say... In FFXIV the money, can influence too much the players power. And this a great problem imho.

First, you're back-pedaling. The bit I quoted in your last post quite specifically indicated that, to you, anyone who has fully melded gear automatically botted or bought their money. Or, that they had max gil at ARR's launch due to how much they had at the end of 1.0... as though that's some kind of criminal act.

I disagree. I used to play Lineage 2, a game that had an over-enchant system that worked very similarly to Materia in its base concept. You could go up to +3 without fear of failing. Once you started going for +4 and up (the max was +16, as I recall), you ran the risk of failing. If you failed, your item blew up, you lost your enchant scroll, and you got back a pile of crystals.

People voiced the same concerns as you - that people with more money were OP'd because they could afford more attempts. And like you, they accused those who succeeded of being botters or buyers, etc. The same jealousy at work.

The fact is, those who had higher enchant items also lost far more items on failed attempts, and blew through far more money. They were also smarter about doing it, made sure they had back-ups of what they wanted to enchant and that they could afford their attempts. They had a means of reliably making enough money to sustain their attempts. They learned how to play the market, learning what sells, taking advantage of "buying sprees" that would happen during in-game events, etc.

Also bear in mind, it wasn't only a lot of money, but a lot of time that went into them getting those items enchanted all the way up successfully. They were very patient, and often made it a long-term project to get a +16.

And the same thing happened there. People who didn't know the market or who otherwise didn't want to know the market or put any effort into learning how to earn the money for themselves, instead complained that it wasn't fair that others got +16 items, while they could only afford to get +3 or maybe +4, and that the system was flawed and should be changed.

NC never changed it. Why? Because it had been proven that every single person playing that game had the same opportunities, the same means and the same odds of doing it for themselves. It wasn't a flaw in the design that prevented them from getting what they wanted - it was their own risk-averse, lazy, self-entitled attitudes that did.

If someone has put the time into earning enough money to pay for the attempts necessary to get their gear fully melded, and they've done it legitimately.. then they deserve it. They had the same odds, risks and requirements as everyone else... they played those odds, and ultimately succeeded.

I won't even go into people buying their gil to pay for what they do, because the response to SE for that is: Get the Anti-RMT team in full effect in XIV like they did in XI and wipe them out. A game's systems should never be designed or balanced around the idea that people are going to RMT their money.

[Dragonheart]

I disagree. I used to play Lineage 2, a game that had an over-enchant system that worked very similarly to Materia in its base concept. You could go up to +3 without fear of failing. Once you started going for +4 and up (the max was +16, as I recall), you ran the risk of failing. If you failed, your item blew up, you lost your enchant scroll, and you got back a pile of crystals.

People voiced the same concerns as you - that people with more money were OP'd because they could afford more attempts. And like you, they accused those who succeeded of being botters or buyers, etc. The same jealousy at work.

The fact is, those who had higher enchant items also lost far more items on failed attempts, and blew through far more money. They were also smarter about doing it, made sure they had back-ups of what they wanted to enchant and that they could afford their attempts. They had a means of reliably making enough money to sustain their attempts. They learned how to play the market, learning what sells, taking advantage of "buying sprees" that would happen during in-game events, etc.

Also bear in mind, it wasn't only a lot of money, but a lot of time that went into them getting those items enchanted all the way up successfully.

And the same thing happened there. People who didn't know the market or who otherwise didn't want to know the market or put any effort into learning how to earn the money for themselves, instead complained that it wasn't fair that others got +16 items, while they could only afford to get +3 or maybe +4, and that the system was flawed and should be changed.

NC never changed it. Why? Because it had been proven that every single person playing that game had the same opportunities, the same means and the same odds of doing it for themselves. It wasn't a flaw in the design that prevented them from getting what they wanted - it was their own lazy, self-entitled attitudes that did.

If someone has put the time into earning enough money to pay for the attempts necessary to get their gear fully melded, and they've done it legitimately.. then they deserve it. They had the same odds, risks and requirements as everyone else... they played those odds, and ultimately succeeded.

I won't even go into people buying their gil to pay for what they do, because the response to SE for that is: Get the Anti-RMT team in full effect in XIV like they did in XI and wipe them out. A game's systems should never be designed or balanced around the idea that people are going to RMT their money.

I'm ok with people like you that like the gambling mechanics.

But at the same time, I pretend that the gear obtained by a real hard encounter (like future hard modes), should reward me at the par or a little more than someone who just got luck in crafting and melding, without fight anything.

[Preypacer]

I'm ok with people like you that like the gambling mechanics.

But at the same time, I pretend that the gear obtained by a real hard encounter (like future hard modes), should reward me at the par or a little more than someone who just got luck in crafting and melding, without fight anything.

There you go again.. dismissing the effort that goes into getting a successfully fully melded item.
1. You have to be using gear for it to spirit bond and produce materia. The most common means of doing that? Fighting stuff. You know those SB parties people would put together in strongholds and such? Yeah.. they were actually fighting stuff. Not sitting around a camp-fire singing kumbaya.
2. You have to spirit bond, potentially, many items to get the materia you're after. Again... that requires being active with that gear, such as fighting.
3. Alternatively, you can buy the materia... how do you earn gil to buy materia? By doing stuff... which means either crafting and selling your goods, questing, etc. etc.
4. You run the risk of losing your materials during the meld process, which results in having to go through the process again... that means more time and/or money.

And so on...

You are still trying to argue for your idea, by dismissing or ignoring the time and effort that others put into getting full melds with the current system. You don't want to face that kind of risk, so you're asking SE to change it. Again, 100% transparent.

[Dragonheart]

There you go again.. dismissing the effort that goes into getting a successfully fully melded item.
1. You have to be using gear for it to spirit bond and produce materia. The most common means of doing that? Fighting stuff. You know those SB parties people would put together in strongholds and such? Yeah.. they were actually fighting stuff. Not sitting around a camp-fire singing kumbaya.
2. You have to spirit bond, potentially, many items to get the materia you're after. Again... that requires being active with that gear, such as fighting.
3. Alternatively, you can buy the materia... how do you earn gil to buy materia? By doing stuff... which means either crafting and selling your goods, questing, etc. etc.
4. You run the risk of losing your materials during the meld process, which results in having to go through the process again... that means more time and/or money.

And so on...

You are still trying to argue for your idea, by dismissing or ignoring the time and effort that others put into getting full melds with the current system. You don't want to face that kind of risk, so you're asking SE to change it. Again, 100% transparent.

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm just saying that if the system remain the same, I want to be rewarded at least on par of a multiple melded gear.

Crafted multiple melded and gears obtained by doing hard encounters (fighting for spirit bond is hard...? Just tedious)
should be AT LEAST on par (and imho slightly superior). That's simple my idea.

But it seems that you want crafted melded gear to be more powerful than rare/ex, so you're the opposite of me then :P

[Shiwayari]

I totally agree that the RNG should be turned down or gotten rid of, but I don't like idea here too much, because it seems to make things a lot easier.
The most valid point in here is that materials, gear, money, materia all need to somehow be 'used up' like they are by the materia system we have now. DoL, DoH are own classes in this game, so we need reasons to craft, sell, craft, blow up, craft, craft, .. etc.
So what I would like is a system with little to no RNG, which still uses up the same amount of items, gear, materia, etc., whatever that system may be. I made a thread a while back with an idea where I tried to do just that, but I think it still needs to be modified to be actually implementable. ( http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...teria-Refining )

Even if in the long run, each player has the avarage luck, the problem remains that for the really good melds most players will not be trying the "avarage" number of melds you need for success. For example, let there be a player A who quadruple melds his whatever-gear on second try. A had luck and now an awesome piece of gear with little effort. If he is not hardcore he probably won't try another meld like that, maybe also because he anticipates that having luck two times is a row is less likely. Then let there be a second player B who gathers tons of materia and tons of gear to try the same quadruple meld, and he fails all of them. He probably wont try again any time soon if he's not hardcore.
Result: A has awesome gear with little effort, B wasted millions for nothing, both are still about 10000 melds away to come close to getting just the avarage amount of successes, and those 10000 more tries will definitely not be only awesome melds like the one before, at least not in the next 5 years..

A system which rewards hard work, and still uses up the same amount of items as it does now, that's what I'd like to see..