CG Midlander

[Catapult]

I figured I should cross-post a little Q&A style analysis I did tucked away in one of the other threads, so more people get to see it here:

Some personal analysis in a Q&A format...

Why seal Bahamut? Why not just kill him?

Because a defeated primal can be re-summoned from the aether. We've experienced this problem first-hand. By sealing Bahamut, you lock up his sentience and prevent that being drawn back out into a new corpearal form by the dragons.

Why would ancient Allag banish this "great sin" to the sky?

Because primals absorb aether from the land as food. Move Bahamut's prison far enough away from the land and you are essentially starving him of the energy needed to break free.

((Extra context: Gaius tells us that it was the Allagan Empire that originally banished Dalamud. This suggests it happened during the 4th or 5th Umbral era, since Allag was founded in the 3rd Astral and the 6th Umbral was associated with flooding.))

So how did Darnus bring Dalamud down?

By feeding him. The lunar transmitter looks like a powerful aether cannon, sending aether gathered from the land right up to a hungry dragon. OmNomNom!
A hungry beast will move closer to its food source. And the best source with which to generate this food is Silvertear Falls, both the heart of the aether stream and the heart of Nael's enemy's territory. How convenient!

What are the consequences of Dalamud getting closer?

Bahamut's power and influence begins to recover. This allows a little investment in Darnus to replace a broken lunar transmitter and the ability to pick up the latent aether of other dispelled primals. (So on the point of knocking out primals that feed on the land's aether, it becomes a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation.) By the time you've properly dealt with Darnus, Dalamud is close enough for it to not matter any more. Sure that extra energy feed would have been nice, but Bahamut can take care of himself by now.


Next topic.

Do the Twelve exist?

Yes. During the third Gridanian quest, "Beckon of the Elementals", a moogle brings you a message.
"The great arbor spirit Everschade has spoken and we have listened, kupo. Those beckoned by the forest are messengers of Nophica herself."
There is plenty of other anecdotal evidence that others have shared.

So how are they summoned?

Louisoix appears to do so through the use of divine symbols. Likewise, we see the Amaljaa's summoning of Ifrit in a cutscene involve placing a symbol on the ground before Ifrit comes forth. This theory is reinforced by information that the arcanist class will form the basis of the summoner job in ARR.

So is Louisoix an arcanist?

We can probably assume so and likewise for Urianger, who wields a type of staff seen used by the arcanists of Maelvan's Gate. This also helps explain the presence of a divine symbol upon Louisoix's staff and his admission that it was by his hand the thirteen "altars" had appeared (this admission is made at the start of "Living on a Prayer").

So why the pilgrimage? Why not just cast the spell?

An aetherial being can hardly be summoned unless its sentience is roused. It needs to WANT to come out (and Ifrit and Garuda are all too happy). The Twelve were in a deep slumber, possibly acutely aware of what impact their corpearal presence would have on a realm that has had a good chunk of it's aether consumed in a giant seal. We needed to get through to them that we needed them again. Badly.

And who better to lead those prayers than the hero who defeated Darnus whose exploits have been spread and praised throughout the grand companies? You have become a leader and a role model and will be followed and imitated for maximum effectiveness. You are a beacon to the people more than the twelve directly.

Why would the Empire allow this?

They wouldn't. Obsessed with Nhilism, Van Darnus has been witholding the true nature of Dalamud and deceiving His Radiance.

Moving on...

Ahhhh, that is true. The phrase is definitely ambiguous enough for the "unanticipated" primal to be those that came into the world on Midgardsormr's death, isn't it...

Good call, there.

As for draconic beastmen, it's going to be interesting to see how they bring this in. The game seems to imply that the beast tribes we have now were once normal animals that were transformed, possibly by their gods. Might the Amal'jaa just be salamanders? The Ixal vultures? The Kobolds rodents? If each of these is true, it certainly holds possible that the dragons were gifted in some way, as well.

That part is also a little ambiguous though - the beast tribes might have just been made more... mean... by the primals, lol.

I agree with the "ambiguous" bit. It's just not clear. I also found this on the Lodestone, or more specifically the Mythril Eye discussing the Carriers of the Cauldron:

Of Beasts and Branding
“Beast tribe” is a designation of Garlean origin, given to those races the Empire deems detestable. Equivalent to an earmarking for extermination, the label is attached on account of association with primals—beatific beings who, amid certain circles, command godlike reverence. In stark contrast, the primals are held in highest hatred by the Garleans, who, besides calling them by the derogatory denomination eikon, have sought to suppress with startling single-mindedness any species suspected to summon them.

It was approximately ten years ago that the last of the beastmen was driven out from Ul’dah. Faced with an impending imperial invasion, the Syndicate passed a policy to purge the sultanate of all beastmen, who found themselves unceremoniously banished by the bevy. Overnight, the sight of sylvan crystal merchants and goblin junk dealers alike up and vanished from the Sapphire Avenue Exchange. Despite the decree’s dubiousness, it was warmly welcomed by the majority of merchants, who regarded reduced rivalry with relish.

Of late, however, the disputed decision of a decade past is threatening to float to the fore, engendered by the emergence of a grizzled goblin geomancer named Mutamix Bubblypots...

Of Mutamix and Materia
According to adventurer accounts, Mutamix first appeared in the wilds of Thanalan less than a moon past with his apprentices in tow, a rag-tag band calling themselves Carriers of the Cauldron. Wasting no time in setting up shop, he proceeded to promote a peculiar matter called materia, which is claimed to be capable of galvanizing gear. Before long, word of Mutamix and his miracle method for augmenting arms and armor had spread like wildfire across the adventurer population.

Inevitably, Ul’dahn merchants, too, came to know of this new player in the field. Unsurprisingly, there were those who felt fearful of Mutamix, convinced that the goblin would incite instability in a market governed by protectionist policies. Such is the acuteness of their aversion, they went so far as to petition the Immortal Flames for the expeditious eradication of all goblins roaming the region.

In contrast to this knee-jerk reaction of self-preservation, there are those who expressly endorse materia, considering it a catalyst for expediting economic expansion. Even now, the market is astir with tolerant traders who are making to maximize their monies by means of the matter, and who have taken a stand against actions that are like to damage Ul’dah-goblin relations.

Sultanate decree distinctly dictates that no goblins are to set foot on Ul’dahn soil. Naught, however, is stipulated of their presence outside her walls. And now two factions stand opposed: those who desire the decimation of goblins versus those who believe it would best behoove the nation to leave them in peace. I, for one, envy not in the least the Immortal Flames’ prickly position.

Our city-state stands at the crossroads of a commercial crisis, and The Mythril Eye will continue to closely monitor the movement of all individuals involved in the unfolding drama.

Havak Alvak

The assertion that the Beastmen were once no more than beasts may very well be racist exaggeration. However, two things still bug me:
- When did Eorzeans start using the Garlean term of "beastmen" that allowed it to become a perfectly acceptable term attracting absolutely no backlash by the time we start playing the game? And if this term could be so well engrained, why aren't we calling the primals "eikons" with equal willingness? It seems a bit of a contradiction.
- The paragon taught the tribes how to summon their primals, but this newspaper article confirms that they held a reverence to their said primal well before. How long has it been since these primals walked the land?



Oh, and I'm still no where near sold on the "Siren is our primal" concept. That can't not be Shiva in the poster either.

[NoloeTazier]

Well something HAS to stop him or distract him for the world to be rebuilt in 5 years as others have questioned this as well and what will be Bahamut's behavior as we play ARR he will be out there. i have mentioned this before that it could be portrayed like Acnologia an era ending dragon in the anime Fairy Tail Lore ...hes out there and there's a chance he can show up and if he does that's it for that civilization and humanity has to practically start over again which could serve as an explanation to the 7 Umbral eras ending and beginning

Yeah but think about, a Labyrinth appears and reseals Bahamut? Nah. Either after the attack Bahamut is drained and has to rest, sort of like how Nidhogg is resting right now but can still control the Dragoon from the AF Quests. Or Bahamut goes off to 'reign,' I sorta just made up the spot in the sky because Midgarsormr is HUGE and just appears from the sky, where was he lurking? Who knows. I just think it's impractical for Bahamut to go Goblin King and design a Labyrinth. I think the Labyrinth exists and it's either under the Sharlayan's protection for knowledge purposes or under the Dravnians control.

[Catapult]

Also here's Ifrit:
Ifrit: You avow yourselves blessed by gods, yet lack the capacity to summon them to your aid.
Ifrit: To which do you kneel, mortals?
Path Companion: I kneel to no false gods.
Ifrit: Fools. Blind to the grace of those who would grant you protection and bless you with their fortune.
Path Companion: And who is it that protects me now?
Amalj'aa: Blasphemy! Death to the heathens!
Amalj'aa: Mind your tongue when speaking to the Lord of the Inferno, lest we cut it out!
Ifrit: I smell the taint upon your soul. Is it Garuda...or Titan? Perchance...Leviathan?
Path Companion: I know not of what you speak.
Ifrit: Vex me not, mortals. The Paragon warned of the godless blessed.
Ifrit: There can only be one TRUE god in this world, and those without cannot be allowed to roam unchecked.
Ifrit: Yet the Paragon has entreated that I spare you, and so I shall--on one condition.
Ifrit: Vow that you shall forsake the summoning of Another. Do so, and your sins will be absolved. Refuse me, and your soul will burn for eternity.
Amalj'aa: On your knees, heathens, and give your oath! In the name of Ifrit, Almighty Lord of the Inferno!
Amalj'aa: Almighty Lord of the Inferno!

Oh, did you hear that? I think it's one of my houses of cards crumbling. :P

[Anonymoose]

Oh, and I'm still no where near sold on the "Siren is our primal" concept.

Me either, really, but it's an interesting idea. If it were true, the little hints to it would sure be subtle/brilliant. I've heard cases for Odin and even Alexander... it's still pretty up in the air, methinks.

[Zenaku]

Me either, really, but it's an interesting idea. If it were true, the little hints to it would sure be subtle/brilliant. I've heard cases for Odin and even Alexander... it's still pretty up in the air, methinks.

The idea of Siren being our primal is just the gift she give a few of us in eorzea by giving this gift she made other primals and even the empire think of us as enemies. Sure she not really our primal but she could have give us that gift so now we are like her beastmen like how the other primals found some thing in the world to give a gift to.

But pretty much that my idea and everything is up in the air like you said.

[Ingolf]

When do we transition from an Umbral to an Astral era? Is it when the huge threat is defeated / Disaster is quelled?

Or is it more prophetic?

[Totorixiii]

I doubt midgardsormr will be revive in 2.0. I feel he's there like a statue to pay homage for what he had done to free the primals.

Also, I actually think its highly possible that it's Siren in that poster of primals during the last IV live letter broadcast.

[Catapult]

Also, I actually think its highly possible that it's Siren in that poster of primals during the last IV live letter broadcast.

No. You don't make a list of elemental summons that includes ifrit and ramuh but excludes shiva. It would become a huge "WTF SE?" moment, especially given the emphasis on fanservice.

I seriously don't get this obsession with Siren. It started when the collector's edition box art was published, making people ask "who might that be" and snowballed from there (yes, I've been around that long to have witnessed this), but that has since turned out to be Garuda.

All the uses of the term "siren" in-game have not only been more mundane, but notably plural. If anything the sirens of yore, as supposedly slewn by Mistbeard decades ago, would be a class of the Sahagin tribe.

If you have to assign where our talent for the Echo came from, it is most logically the Twelve, or more specifically, Althyk the Keeper (of time and space).

[Anonymoose]

I agree that the one on the box is Garuda. The feet give it away.
I also agree that the one on the poster is Shiva; the head-piece is (to me) clearly ice, not feathers

The "obsession" with Siren is generally just a theory that gets stated as "too many coincidences to not be true" very often.

Now, between:

"Are you sure it wasn't a siren?" - said by guy on docks after hearing the songstress
The harp that plays during the songstresses song when you awaken
The harp on the Astalicia that plays the song that plays when you awaken
The Sanguine Sirens being near this harp player
The unnamed primal image that looks like Siren from FFXIII
Said primal image not being included on the poster
The two terms referred to your situation are that you are "Woken" and have "The Echo," which correlate to Siren's main attack, Hope Song, which silences you (silence cured by Echo drops/herbs and sounds like something you'd call Answers), and sleep.

I'm not saying it's truth - but it's the best idea I've got so far.

[Warlock]

No. You don't make a list of elemental summons that includes ifrit and ramuh but excludes shiva. It would become a huge "WTF SE?" moment, especially given the emphasis on fanservice.

I seriously don't get this obsession with Siren. It started when the collector's edition box art was published, making people ask "who might that be" and snowballed from there (yes, I've been around that long to have witnessed this), but that has since turned out to be Garuda.

All the uses of the term "siren" in-game have not only been more mundane, but notably plural. If anything the sirens of yore, as supposedly slewn by Mistbeard decades ago, would be a class of the Sahagin tribe.

If you have to assign where our talent for the Echo came from, it is most logically the Twelve, or more specifically, Althyk the Keeper (of time and space).

It is Siren as you can see here:
http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-19/ff14-siren.html
Compare it to the poster