New Job System Incoming!!! - But what does this mean??

[solracht]

Just lol. Yeah, me and basically everyone else it seems. In FFXI a DRK that presented himself as a tank would be laughed at and sent back to the mog house to get that two hander.

Endgame. The paladin that presented himself to the team would be sent back to his mog house to change jobs (not necesarily to DRK) if their group cared about efficiency and low-manning.

[Abriael]

Endgame. The paladin that presented himself to the team would be sent back to his mog house to change jobs if their group cared about efficiency and low-manning.

Oh really? I never had any problem of the sort. Maybe becayse i was a good tank and in most cases I didn't even need the utsusemi explot in order to be more efficent than most others?

Going around as a ninja with a cheesy armor a tank doesn't make.

[Cairdeas]

Oh really? I never had any problem of the sort. Maybe becayse i was a good tank?

I've tanked as a White Mage in FFXI multiple times, Both in and out of Bones Parties.

[solracht]

At least you admit it.

The fact that I was testing how long you'd keep on biting doesn't make what I was saying any less true, by the way. Don't misunderstand!

[Abriael]

The fact that I was testing how long you'd keep on biting doesn't make what I was saying any less true, by the way. Don't misunderstand!

That doesn't make it any less true. The simple fact that it was untrue makes it so, don't misunderstand!
By your logic, everyone that leveled a ninja sub in FFXI is a tank.

[Cairdeas]

That doesn't make it any less true. The simple fact that it was untrue makes it so, don't misunderstand!
By your logic, everyone that leveled a ninja sub in FFXI is a tank.

Your job didn't really make you a tank, its what you did in a party that did.

A Thief/dancer can tank. It isn't pretty and you need a hella good support healer, but its viable.

[Abriael]

Your job didn't really make you a tank, its what you did in a party that did.

A Thief/dancer can tank. It isn't pretty and you need a hella good support healer, but its viable.

Viable != being defined by the role of tanking.
There are classes that are tanks, and classes that can be viable for tanking in situational instances due to the utsusemi exploit and similar. That doesn't make them tanks.

God forbid we end up in FFXIV in the aberrant situation in which specialized tanks may be excluded from their own role because they deal less damage

[solracht]

That doesn't make it any less true. The simple fact that it was untrue makes it so, don't misunderstand!

Do let me know how you managed to overcome hits that were not diminished by defense and why that was better than taking no damage at all.

Do let me know how your Paladin (/ninja or not) was more useful than a DD that was capable of outdamaging you while taking the same amount of damage as you would while doing so.

Square-Enix has never tried hard enough to make defined tanks.
See: "defense stat" or "criticall hit rate down" in Warcraft. Other western MMORPGs have it, too.

Basically, anyone who doesn't have enough of that stat will get crushed when getting hit by the hard bosses. No questions asked. By only letting tanks get that stat, and making defense actually matter (something neither XI or XIV have done) you guarantee that your "tanks" are not eclipsed by smart use of game mechanics.

Being serious now: ignoring the problem is the worst thing to do. Things aren't necesarily looking bright for Gladiators in this game either.

[solracht]

Oh really? I never had any problem of the sort. Maybe becayse i was a good tank and in most cases I didn't even need the utsusemi explot in order to be more efficent than most others?

Going around as a ninja with a cheesy armor a tank doesn't make.

Holy shit lol. I was about to let this drop, but I have to keep on going now.

It's not a matter of arguing or opinion. Defense was useless in that game. You got hit like a truck and there was nothing you could do about it besides casting shadows.

[AlexiaKidd]

I am in favour of removing Physical Level and replacing with Job Level. In order to do so they will need to strip back the current classes (weapon specialisation) to do it.

If they strip the weapons back to weapon skill's only and then add the skills and abilities they learn to the new Job System instead I would be very happy. So for MRD Skull Sunder, Trunk Splitter and so on would be weapon skill's tied to the Great Axe. Then the Job could be MRD/WAR and it would learn Bloodbath, Warmonger, Foresight and so on. With this system I could equip a sword and still have full use of my WAR/MRD abilities but the weapon skills would be from the Sword/GLA side so Onion Cut, Spin Stroke, Red Lotus and so on.