Getting back different tier spells?

[Zantetsuken]

I am fully in favor of bringing back tiered spells into the game, it seems strange for a FF game not to have them.

The OP's suggestion of replacing the lower tier spell is the best way of doing it without cluttering up the magic options.

Some upgrading ideas:

Spells upgraded via Job traits -- for instance:

• Thaumaturge casts Fire (current stats and look)
• Black Mage upgrades it to Fire II (slightly more damage, bigger explosion)
• 'Sage' might upgrade the fire spell to Fire III (bigger AOE, more damage, bigger explosion)

Spells could be upgraded by Guild Quests -- Perhaps we could undergo Class trials to upgrade spells. -- at Conjurer's guild you unlock a quest a lvl 30 that upgrades Cure to Cure II (increases healing by 15%, flashier effect)


Personally, I like the Job idea best as it separates the Jobs and Classes more -- but the Job and Quest ideas could even be combined... maybe as our lvl 55 Job quest?

[Yrusama]

Depends. In Abyssea tier III > IV > aga (aoe tiers) were used heavily. In Voidwatch all tiers are used. WHM/SCH/RDM curing will use III/IV/V/VI depending on situation. BLUs will use different tier debuffs depending on situation. While leveling you'll use different tiers as it is what's available to you at the time and so on.

This game can use tier spells even if they scale, because Cure > Cura > Curaga isn't really enough cure spells when you think long term, breaking it up to Cure > Cura > Cura II then Curaga > Curasa for AoE tiers work fine. While Curaga works on less hp > more healed, it's really an "oh shit" spell since the only optimal cure spell will generally be locked down on recast whereas if we had multiple you could cycle through it incase of emergences (since most encounters you only have 1 benediction.)

The system using suffixes goes beyond -Ra and -Ga. Like you said, there's Curasa, but there's also -Ja. Here's a list of all I've seen in the franchise:
-Normal/No Suffix (e.g. Fire, tier 1 fire spell)
-ra (e.g. Fira, tier 2 fire spell. Also for AoE versions of FFXI buffs, such as Protectra or Barfira)
-ga (e.g. Firaga, tier 3 fire spell, or AoE in FFXI)
-ja (e.g. Firaja, tier 4 fire spell, also does something weird in XI but I forgot it)
-na (e.g. Poisona, removes Poison status. We have Esuna as an all-purpose debuff remedy)
-sa (e.g. Curasa, heals HP in proportion to missing HP in FFXIII)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember hearing that Materia in the Japanese version have tiers using this system:
Materia > Materira > Materida > Materiga. This opens up the possibility of more tiers, such as Materija and Materisa (V and VI for EN players), which we may see after a level cap increase. Perhaps they could make Materina as a unique type that can alter/remove currently-melded materia. Not saying they should, but it's a thought.

[Wynn]

I think some posters in this thread are right when they say there are good reason to use different tiers of the spells, especially in regard to hate and mp regulation.

However, I also feel that the clutter in XIV is an absolute issue.

Why not make it so that when you click on Fire, for example, that it gives a radial menu where you can choose the different tiers of the spell?

I also feel this could be used to reintroduce options to change between single and multi target, which also has tactical benefit for casters.

Each option could change the casting cost appropriately.

[Jynx]

Well if we are really going to get into spellcasting being a tactical thing instead of a one button thing...We should consider making all elements single target and AOE again...

You know because being able to pick a elemental weakness and not AOE the world around you is sometimes a good thing.

[Judge_Xero]

Pretty much fine with the current system other than this

Well if we are really going to get into spellcasting being a tactical thing instead of a one button thing...We should consider making all elements single target and AOE again...

Currently:
- As a mage levels up, the MP cost and strength of their spells increase.
- The animation changes between the existing Tier'd Spells (Thunder, Thundaga etc)

I'm not sure why someone would want the animation to change for a spell as you level up. The spell is the same, it's the casters strength that increases the damage.

Why at level 50, do we need 4+ Tiers of spells/per spell to manage...?

[KoujiGeki]

well if you read books about magic or watch animes, they tend to go from boys who learning just to summon a flicker of fire like a match takes ALOT of concentration and effect. Many of years later after casting fire over and over and over they get use to it Now they can make a Fire ball in their hands while not even thinking about it. And yes while being attacked and having to run from other spells or sword. But then even years later he could be and old man and ccould cast an Inferno by batting his eyelash.

[Alhanelem]

Pretty much fine with the current system other than this



Currently:
- As a mage levels up, the MP cost and strength of their spells increase.
- The animation changes between the existing Tier'd Spells (Thunder, Thundaga etc)

I'm not sure why someone would want the animation to change for a spell as you level up. The spell is the same, it's the casters strength that increases the damage.

Why at level 50, do we need 4+ Tiers of spells/per spell to manage...?

Right, but caster's strength could reasonably be reflected in the spell graphics- if i channel more intelligence or whatever mental magic power makes magic, how does it cause more damage? One would expect that you're making the fire hotter, the electricity having higher voltage, the blizzard colder... These effects would have an impact on what you see...

[Tonkra]

Well if we are really going to get into spellcasting being a tactical thing instead of a one button thing...We should consider making all elements single target and AOE again...

You know because being able to pick a elemental weakness and not AOE the world around you is sometimes a good thing.

thats true. you should be able to cast fire on a target (for effectivness) without aeoing everything.

hopefully they find a good new system... some in between the current and the old spell system. that'd be really great although i think they will stick almost fully to the current system. hm-

[Seig345]

I don't think we need actual spell tiers, but if the same spell simply looks more impressive every 15-20 levels or so (as in, it's the same spell down the line, but as the OP illustrated, the Fire spell's visual effects at level 1 vs level 20 would be drastically different), I'm all for that. No having to re-balance diddly squat, but gives more of a visual reason as to why the exact same spell is doing more damage down the line.

Edited

[Shougun]

I don't think we need actual spell tiers, but if the same spell simply looks more impressive every 15-20 levels or so (as in, it's the same spell down the line, but as the OP illustrated, the Fire spell's visual effects at level 1 vs level 20 would be drastically different), I'm all for that. No having to re-balance diddly squat, no superfluous extra spells, but gives more of a visual reason as to why the exact same spell is doing more damage down the line.

Edit: Seig edited his post so this makes less sense

Tiers are not superfluous. Though they do take up room lol.

Being able to cast a faster spell, or a cheaper spell on demand was useful tactically.