Getting back different tier spells?

[Tonkra]

What do you think about if SE would implement the differens tier's of damage spells. (Like Aero I , Aero II etc...?)
i dont mean getting back the old spell system before the reformation, just a mix of both would be great.


I mean it would be okay if they stick to the system that the damage of spells progress automatically when you raise your level. But i'd love if they implement different tiers.. so that the Aero of a lv 50 conjurer looks much more impressive than the aero I of a lv 1 player?

right now every damage spell looks the same, from level 1 till lv 50.
so that for example from lv 1-19 its Aero I at lv 20 you receive Aero II etc... at least for the visuals it'd be great.


what do you think`? because i think in a rpg its important to have the feeling of getting more powerful while leveling up, and more powerful looking spells are just a part of it.


Also Yoshida said that they want to create a Final Fantasy Online which feels more like a final fantasy. for that we need different spell stages ( I, II, III, IV etc.) thats final fantasy alike
mages became too flat after the skill reformation, just in my opinion.

you did not understand me (sorry for my bad english explanation^)
i do not mean, that a conjurer should have 4 different aero skills for example. it should still remain one skill that raises at different stages drastically (mainly in visuals -> different tiers)


for example:

lv1-lv 20
aero I (only available for lv 1-20 chars)

lv20-lv 40
aero II (for lv 20-40 only) - different visuals, slight damage boost.

lv 40-50
aero III (for lv 40-50 only as well) - different visuals, slight damage boost.

ONE skill which receives visual upgrades at different level stages (and maybe small damage boosts also) the automatical damage progession between those level stages should be kept (like in the current version).

But i think its great when you level a mage class and see how you evolve to a more powerul mage with bigger and more powerful spells. These are the small motivations for people to level up characters in an rpg.
as well as we will have our final fantasy alike "Aero I, Aero II" etc. still ingame.


no?

[Raldo]

How often did you actually ever cast a previous-tier spell in XI? I can think of one instance, and that was because your recast timer wasn't up. I think they've said that spells will not have recast timers in ARR, so...

No, we don't need tiers.

[Tonkra]

How often did you actually ever cast a previous-tier spell in XI?

No, we don't need tiers.

the polls said they people wanted major changes to the game and we got it. we used to have tier spells but people cried about having to many spells to manage.

they need to just need to redo blm give them the old cnj elemental spells. still whm with holy type spells. right now fire & thunder with some crappy ice spells aint cutting it.

people dont want immersion, they just want loot. everything that was RPG is getting stripped out and we already lost a few things like curious mobs.

you did not understand me (sorry for my bad english explanation^)
i dont mean, that a conjurer should have 4 different aero skills for example. it should still remain one skill that raises at different stages drastically (mainly in visuals -> new tier)


one aero skill which has different tiers (stages)... and that just for visuals and maybe a little more damage boost also on the other hand.


that means, you will ever have only access to one aero skill.. this skill progesses automatically in damage when you progess in your class level. (like the current system)... BUT in addition it should have different tiers, where it gets more powerful visuals (what we had before).
but they got rid of the more powerful visuals of an lv 50 aero IV.

so i mean... the aero I skill will become an aero II spell at lv 20 where its visuals gets more impressive looking. (and maybe a little power boost also)

[Haibel]

you did not understand me (sorry for my bad english explanation^)
i dont mean, that a conjurer should have 4 different aero skills for example. it should still remain one skill that raises at different stages drastically (mainly in visuals -> new tier)


one aero skill which has different tiers (stages)... and that just for visuals and maybe a little more damage boost also on the other hand.


that means, you will ever have only access to one aero skill.. this skill progesses automatically in damage when you progess in your class level. (like the current system)... BUT in addition it should have different tiers, where it gets more powerful visuals (what we had before).

so i mean... the aero I skill will become an aero II spell at lv 20 where its visuals gets more impressive looking. (and maybe a little power boost also)

I really think what you are saying was the original plan. and I believe it probably would be like that in ARR.
At the time they took out the tiered spells, ARR was already in the works and it made no sense to put the work
in to making a visually changing spell animation for the current verison. I really believe this came up way back
during the change and that was the reason they didn't do it in this stage of the game.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

I really think what you are saying was the original plan. and I believe it probably would be like that in ARR.
At the time they took out the tiered spells, ARR was already in the works and it made no sense to put the work
in to making a visually changing spell animation for the current verison. I really believe this came up way back
during the change and that was the reason they didn't do it in this stage of the game.

I'm almost certain I read this as well. I'll attempt to find this somewhere. I hope it isn't in an interview and is in a dev post. That'll make it easier.

[Elexia]

How often did you actually ever cast a previous-tier spell in XI?

No, we don't need tiers.

Depends. In Abyssea tier III > IV > aga (aoe tiers) were used heavily. In Voidwatch all tiers are used. WHM/SCH/RDM curing will use III/IV/V/VI depending on situation. BLUs will use different tier debuffs depending on situation. While leveling you'll use different tiers as it is what's available to you at the time and so on.

This game can use tier spells even if they scale, because Cure > Cura > Curaga isn't really enough cure spells when you think long term, breaking it up to Cure > Cura > Cura II then Curaga > Curasa for AoE tiers work fine. While Curaga works on less hp > more healed, it's really an "oh shit" spell since the only optimal cure spell will generally be locked down on recast whereas if we had multiple you could cycle through it incase of emergences (since most encounters you only have 1 benediction.)

[Firon]

Depends. In Abyssea tier III > IV > aga (aoe tiers) were used heavily. In Voidwatch all tiers are used. WHM/SCH/RDM curing will use III/IV/V/VI depending on situation. BLUs will use different tier debuffs depending on situation. While leveling you'll use different tiers as it is what's available to you at the time and so on.

This game can use tier spells even if they scale, because Cure > Cura > Curaga isn't really enough cure spells when you think long term, breaking it up to Cure > Cura > Cura II then Curaga > Curasa for AoE tiers work fine. While Curaga works on less hp > more healed, it's really an "oh shit" spell since the only optimal cure spell will generally be locked down on recast whereas if we had multiple you could cycle through it incase of emergences (since most encounters you only have 1 benediction.)

The bold makes no sense seeing how spells scale with your lvl meaning that Cure will always be a effective spell at all levels means it better long term then lets say XI where cure 1 is pointless in anything but PL.

[Elexia]

The bold makes no sense seeing how spells scale with your lvl meaning that Cure will always be a effective spell at all levels means it better long term then lets say XI where cure 1 is pointless in anything but PL.

Cure does scale, but it's also fairly low even at cap since cura is much better than cure at cap for example, thus you're more likely to see cura used over cure. It's also two sided: You also need content balance to be taken into consideration, but having scaled skills doesn't really mean tiered spells can't exist, they'd just have higher caps while making sure none of the previous ones are pretty much worthless to use.

Just like in XI, tier IV nukes are still powerful even though tier V have higher caps and can hit much, much harder at times so you'd still actually use both for a viable source of damage.

[Firon]

Cure does scale, but it's also fairly low even at cap since cura is much better than cure at cap for example, thus you're more likely to see cura used over cure. It's also two sided: You also need content balance to be taken into consideration, but having scaled skills doesn't really mean tiered spells can't exist, they'd just have higher caps while making sure none of the previous ones are pretty much worthless to use.

Just like in XI, tier IV nukes are still powerful even though tier V have higher caps and can hit much, much harder at times so you'd still actually use both for a viable source of damage.

Cure right now in the current version is a good spell when healing in most fight you don't even need to spam Cura its just over kill.... Only time i cast Cura is when a boss does a ws all AA attacks from bosses can be healed up with Cure. Like i said Cure is very useful unlike if @ the start of the game where cure 1 was garbage as soon as you got cure 2 and was a waste of spell then so was cure 2 when you got cure 3.

[Yrusama]

Depends. In Abyssea tier III > IV > aga (aoe tiers) were used heavily. In Voidwatch all tiers are used. WHM/SCH/RDM curing will use III/IV/V/VI depending on situation. BLUs will use different tier debuffs depending on situation. While leveling you'll use different tiers as it is what's available to you at the time and so on.

This game can use tier spells even if they scale, because Cure > Cura > Curaga isn't really enough cure spells when you think long term, breaking it up to Cure > Cura > Cura II then Curaga > Curasa for AoE tiers work fine. While Curaga works on less hp > more healed, it's really an "oh shit" spell since the only optimal cure spell will generally be locked down on recast whereas if we had multiple you could cycle through it incase of emergences (since most encounters you only have 1 benediction.)

The system using suffixes goes beyond -Ra and -Ga. Like you said, there's Curasa, but there's also -Ja. Here's a list of all I've seen in the franchise:
-Normal/No Suffix (e.g. Fire, tier 1 fire spell)
-ra (e.g. Fira, tier 2 fire spell. Also for AoE versions of FFXI buffs, such as Protectra or Barfira)
-ga (e.g. Firaga, tier 3 fire spell, or AoE in FFXI)
-ja (e.g. Firaja, tier 4 fire spell, also does something weird in XI but I forgot it)
-na (e.g. Poisona, removes Poison status. We have Esuna as an all-purpose debuff remedy)
-sa (e.g. Curasa, heals HP in proportion to missing HP in FFXIII)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember hearing that Materia in the Japanese version have tiers using this system:
Materia > Materira > Materida > Materiga. This opens up the possibility of more tiers, such as Materija and Materisa (V and VI for EN players), which we may see after a level cap increase. Perhaps they could make Materina as a unique type that can alter/remove currently-melded materia. Not saying they should, but it's a thought.