The growing entitlement issues of the casuals

[kanjitai]

For me the days of hardcore ended when I got a job..

But tell me something.. why shouldn't casuals be able to get involved in endgame activities and get equipment as good as hardcore's..? Casuals need just more time than hardcores to achieve that, it wouldn't be fair to negate things to casuals because "they don't play enough hours a day"..

"That serves you for getting a job instead of living in the basement of your parents..!" is that what an hardcore gamer would say to a casual then..?

FFXI became too demanding in terms of time.. that's why I had to quit.. now I have to pray SE that they don't turn FFXIV in another timesink because hardcores want to spend their life on it..?

I like how you put it. casuals just need a little more time. we're not less skilled or learned at our job we just have RL things that are greater then a game and no matter what RL is always greater then a game.

[Carmillia]

Casuals paid for the game exactly as much as the hardcore. Like it or not.

^This. And this price is to access content if I'm correct. Make a 'casual monthly fee' and then it will make sence to not be able to access the same content (ie gears also). In any case, with less time to play, people have less time to get items and thus hardcore players still are a steps ahead in the game.

[Tenchi]

^This. And this price is to access content if I'm correct. Make a 'casual monthly fee' and then it will make sence to not be able to access the same content (ie gears also). In any case, with less time to play, people have less time to get items and thus hardcore players still are a steps ahead in the game.

You say that, but it's not the issue here. Two people buy a gym membership one goes 3 days a week the other 5... who's going to get more out of their membership?

[Carmillia]

Hardcore = accomplishment (gear) comes with hard work...
Casuals = i don't have time to play so gimme everything at level 1

I really hate casuals its cause of em MMO's get screwed since companies want to please everybody Wowcraft is a very good example.

That's totally not true, I'm casual and I don't want everything at rank1 or whatever. Casual are about not having Time sink activities that makes no sense whatsoever. We want challenges! hard fight! We can work hard on things we want but it will just takes longer!

[Lamhirh]

You say that, but it's not the issue here. Two people buy a gym membership one goes 3 days a week the other 5... who's going to get more out of their membership?

Unemployed teroid pusher who spends 20 hours a day there <_<

[northernsky]

Agreed with everything that has been said about the importance of player skills vs time spent on the game and the possibility for everyone who pays to play to have access to the total content of the game.

The only question I have is how do you keep hardcore players involved? If high-end content (dungeons/gear etc.) are not a significant time sink to have access to and to participate in, what will hardcore players do of their time beyond ranking each job to the top? And then what?

Personally, I'm a very casual player and I wasn't offended in XI when I was seeing other players with great gear compared to mine. Anyway the smart people were not expecting you to possess all this end game gear for every job, they were expecting you to be properly equipped at your level and know your job.

If I ever obtained such a hard to obtain piece of gear with the help of friends during a whole night of play I have to admit that the sense of accomplishment was great.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

what is surplus SP? also I like how Zenaku said it. the definition of hardcore and casual. I feel I fall in between the two. I have time to play but don't want to spend hours on one thing.

best example relic armor from 11. 3+ hours with no guarantee you get a thing. I just want SE to give casual content as well as hardcore that way both sides have something to do.

You know he is 100% NOT correct though and no... the time it took you to get gear don;t make any less worth. The challenge of the content or fight makes it worth it.

sorry but hardcore content = hard content not TIME SINK content. and difficaulty has NOTHTING to do with time.

will you get get that in your mind for once. That mantality you guys have make mmos seem like a joke. Who honestly thinks like that. Once you log off its not like what you just did is importent. On the game yes, not in real life.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

The only question I have is how do you keep hardcore players involved? If high-end content (dungeons/gear etc.) are not a significant time sink to have access to and to participate in, what will hardcore players do of their time beyond ranking each job to the top? And then what?

personally the only real time sink should be leveling, it should take time to earn levels to get better at your roles.

But there is no need to have content be a time sink. Everyplayer should beable to do 100% of the content in any mmo. we all buy the game and pay the same fees

Why is it so hard for people to understand that. ffxi isn't doing so well in subs either. And they are revamping to that game to also be less time consuming. the only justified time sink is earning relic weapons mythic weapons etc. It took time because you were collecting the coins, anyone could do it.

Limiting acess to those who got time to play only drives players away. We don't want that.

[Holy_Dragoon]

Skip to TL: DR version if you are from the low attention span era. (not an insult, there are many many people that this affects for various reasons)

I find that this entire argument can be compared to the real world as it stands now. Sense of entitlement. I believe there is a generational gap in areas in the world where this is happening. The previous generation believes that hard work, and time dedicated to a craft should pay off, because it did. Meanwhile more and more, this generation is all about entitlement.

The fact that everyone deserves a chance at having what everyone else has. The issue is, we as a society have created this. More and more we grow up thinking that we can be anything we want to be if we follow a path. Usually that involves education in the desired path, ending with a degree in (chosen career). Now here is where things get screwy. The education system is a gimme system today. Hard work is no longer required, if you fail, take a make-up course and be given the free pass. You can be tested using the method of your choice, ensuring success. Your educators are at the will of the parents and the students. Students learn this, and learn that their educators have no real power, and take advantage of it. Parents are also now afraid to discipline children as they grow up, because children are taught this cycle that we are all entitled to a proper equal life. It's become a vicious circle that is spiraling.

Once education is complete, you are thrust into the working world. This world has began to match the education system. It's not quite so cut and dry though. In an effort to save costs, employers have slowly cut out the perks that employees received for being loyal, and loyal long-term employees are forced out of the company through some means. This has caused employees to have no loyalty. This lack of loyalty means employers know they can find another worker easily, and thus is another circle. Add in contract work, which also induces no company loyalty. At this point is where we add in a graduated student entering the workforce. They are introduced to a system that is looking for workers experienced workers, which have become easy to obtain. This new student feels all the "hard work" they did educating themselves will give them the job of their dreams. One of two things happen at this stage:

1: You are hired immediately because you knew someone, completing the entitlement cycle successfully.

2: You are not hired immediately, you spend a small amount of time trying before you give up. Once this happens you look for another "easy in" by researching another field, or similar field. This leads to our disappointed generation that takes jobs they do not like to survive, but its ok because that employer is not loyal to you, so you can move on at any time.

Certainly there are those that do not fit into this. Which is why there are various opinions on the subject. There are also others that see the circle differently entirely. This is but my viewpoint.

How it all relates to FFXIV:
The casual gamers are the entitlement era, and through no fault of their own want what everyone else has.

Mid-core gamers are this in between era. They recognize that hard works deserves more reward, but think they should be able to obtain a slice of the pie too. This group actually encompasses a couple different groups.

Hardcore gamers are the previous generation that truly believes that hard work should pay off, and that those who are from the entitlement era don't deserve the same rewards that they receive.

From the development side, dealing with players from all types of gamers is proving difficult. To combat this other companies have been trying to innovate constantly, and eventually cut out certain groups of gamers to become successful. See Call of Duty and WoW for a wonderful example, you can literally watch the evolution of this happening in these games where they change from one type of gamer to another in order to attain huge success. They are basically choosing the group with the highest numbers, which is the entitlement era currently. If SE wants to make large sums of money, they will likely do the same from a business point of view. Our opinions show SE which is the bigger pool of players. (I believe the F2P concept of MMOs were born from some these ideas. Hardcore players will play through the content, Entitlement players will purchase their way up. That's a whole other conversation though.)

TL: DR version:
The generation gap gamers mirrors the current generation gap in society, creating very distinct groups of gamer types. Companies have a hard time meeting the demands to of two conflicting gamer groups.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

also the actual dungeons should be the challenge not how long it takes to get there nor how long the run is. If the time sink is in a sence doing the story to acess the content i'm sure no one minds that. But as long as the story content is only limited to those who can progress through it.

thats was ffxi flaw quests took so long to get done anyone who can't play 5+ hours couldn't do it. No one should feel they can't acess stuff all because of time.