Auction Houses vs. Market Wards

[Roaran]

Auction House functions are differen than those of a market. When debating between the two systems it is important to identify and clarify which respective aspects are necessary or unique.

In order to be an actual Auction, the actual price of the transaction must be something of an unknown. The idea is to give the sale to the highest bidder. The very nature of the prices being unknown is NOT something you want to have as a general rule. So by and large, Auctions are bad for all MMOs. To consider them as the basis for transactions is simply foolish.

That said, there is still a use for Auctions in general. Auctions are better suited for those rare items whose prices is not really determined by it's steady and continuous existence in the market itself. So, implementing an Auction House as a supplement would be a welcome addition, yet it is not a necessary one.

A "Market" is a place or system where goods are exchanged. The actual exchanges can be made directly for other goods or services or simply a form of money which is then always exchanged for other goods or services.

The Market is the most superior form of exchange. However, the implementation of the market itself will determine how effective it is.

This thread I made awhile ago is still the best solution yet.
Retainer Reference System

What you need in a market is - Freedom, Flexibility, and Access. Freedom to choose (from whatever you are capable of) anything you want to do to make gil. The flexibility to shift production to meet the needs of players. And being able to, without arbitrary hindrances, to provide a means with which production and needs are both in equilibrium.

The Retainer Reference System, for which I provided the link, can be implemented in many many different ways or degrees, but it needs a few things.

The Referencing of all items across the entire World (of all Servers would be even better) that are flagged available for sale by players. The ability to readily and effeciently compare and purchase items for known quantities of gil or some other item. And the ability to purchase items and place items for sale from a single terminal or menu.

[Zantetsuken]

I want to take my retainer out of the building and put her money-maker on the streets or in the field or at camp. Make her move around at-least(well, not actually move, just dance in place) :P

If they allow that, there needs to be a limited amount of designated spots (like booths) for retainers so we don't end up with:

[Molly_Millions]

I said it before and I'll say it again. Market wards = 10 clicks just get put an item for sell:

-Click on menu to go into the market wards
-Choose which market ward your retainer is (if both your retainers are in the same ward, then good for you) if not you have to repeat this step to go to another ward were your 2nd retainer is.
-Wait for loading
-Click on retainer
-Click on exchange items
-Click on item you want to transfer from your inventory to the retainer inventory
-Get out of the exchange menu
-Now click on check bazaar menu
-Scroll through inventory to find item
-Click on item
-Click on quantity of items you want to sell
-Click on price you want to sell item for
-Click submit

AH = about 5 at most, if not less steps, to sell an item.

and to add insult to injury...

To check price trends so you know what price you will have to use to sell an item = a trip back and forward from market ward door to your retainer. AH = 1 window to see everything.

It's very possible that an AH would not reduce the number of clicks by much. Besides, it's not like putting something up for sale in the MW is all that inefficient anyway it take a minute or two at most.

[Tonkra]

If they allow that, there needs to be a limited amount of designated spots (like booths) for retainers so we don't end up with:

you mean something more like this? ;D (Lineage II)


And these are only playercharacters who opened private shops.. and not market NPC's. (then it would be even more character models)


I see the city zones crashing, and i cant imagine, how a PS3 should handle this, because they cant reduce the graphic settings.

And i dont get at all why we need extra polygon characters, who are only standing around like zombies.. i never will get it.. it just causes server lag and crashes... and uses much server capacity.

It's very possible that an AH would not reduce the number of clicks by much. Besides, it's not like putting something up for sale in the MW is all that inefficient anyway it take a minute or two at most.

Well its very inefficient... you check the prices first at the markethall npc then you run to your market ward and transfer the item to him.


instead of checking price -> sell it directly at the npc.

the market ward system works like this:

check price at market npc -> switch to an other market zone.. -> walk to your market ward -> transfer item and set price..

want to sell more than one item? do the same procedure again or write all prices down on paper before going to your market ward.
wind crystal -> 60k
polearm -> 100k
cole -> 20k
-> transfer to your ward.

not inefficient? ... well i would se its much inefficient and no fun at all to sell items via a second npc... instead of transfering it directly after checking the prices like with an auction house. who needs this? i want to sell stuff on my own.

personally i dont need a personal slave.

[Molly_Millions]

the market ward system works like this:

check price at market npc -> switch to an other market zone.. -> walk to your market ward -> transfer item and set price..

want to sell more than one item? do the same procedure again or write all prices down on a letter before going to your market ward.
wind crystal -> 60k
polearm -> 100k
cole -> 20k

not inefficient? ... well i would se its much inefficient and no fun at all to sell items via a second npc... instead of transfering it directly like with an auction house. who needs this? i want to sell stuff on my own.

why are you checking prices in a different ward that your retainer is in? It's seems like YOUR process is inefficient.

Here is a better way:

go the ward you retainer is in > dump all of your goods you are going to sell onto your retainer > check prices on all of the goods you want to sell > put them up for sale

in an AH you would

go the ah > check prices on all of the goods you want to sell > put them up for sale



So it increases efficiency by one step, while losing current and possible future functionality of the retainers, such as personalized stalls.

[Tonkra]

go the ward you retainer is in > dump all of your goods you are going to sell > check prices on all of the goods you want to sell > put them up for sale

thats the way i do it too.. but it really gets on my nerves and how do you do it when you sell about 10 items or more? (especially the raw materials like cole etc.)
i often sell it at the npc's because its too annoying to check the prices first for all materials.

i myself have to write these things on paper to remember it.. cole -> 5 k , wind crystal 35k etc. blabla.. as i said.
and thats not an efficient gamedesign if i have to write down things.

in FF11 it made fun to sell stuff.. check the price -> sell item... check the price -> sell item... there was no need for a second (and useless) instance (the market ward)


Market ward system:
Market Search npc -> Retainer -> sell item

Auction house:
Auction house -> sell item

what is better now? the first system is a (useless) backstep and nothing more. the search option we have right now is almost an auction house. but there is still the annoying and useless second instance.

plus retainers are standing around like zombies, eating server capacity and lead to lags, instable framerates and zone crashes.. woo* i really need it..

[NoctisUmbra]

How about we wait for beta and see what system we get in ARR before we bring up this debate that is as old as the game itself?

I'm pretty sure what we're gonna get is a further enhanced MW system that essentially has the best of both worlds. They'll be adding all the things that either they couldn't or were much too difficult to implement for the MW in ARR so it functions more like a simple AH than it does even now.

[Molly_Millions]

what is better now? the first system is a (useless) backstep and nothing more. the search option we have right now is almost an auction house. but there is still the annoying and useless second instance.

It's not useless. As I said in one of the thousands of other threads that has beaten this topic to death, I like the fact that we can see armor on the retainers before we buy it, I like the fact we can set up a personalized shop to sell our goods. You can't do these things with an AH. Just because you don't like them doesn't make it useless.

[Tonkra]

It's not useless. As I said in one of the thousands of other threads that has beaten this topic to death, I like the fact that we can see armor on the retainers before we buy it, I like the fact we can set up a personalized shop to sell our goods. You can't do these things with an AH. Just because you don't like them doesn't make it useless.

instable framerates, terracotta army, lags, zone crashes... and a disturbing step more to sell your items. that you can see armors before you buy it, that can be done without retainers who overcrowd areas.
(Guildwars for example or Lineage, AION blabla)

but well, you have your opinion i have mine. it has one good point.. it is mostly unique in the MMORPG genre. but that is more or less unique (some other mmorpgs have some kind of system like that too.. DAOC for example) does not make it better.

[Hanabira]

I like the ward system combined with the search.. BUT you need to be able to see -all- of the item with the search. not just the first 20. its a pain in the butt when im trying to find a triple meld lightning brand and there are 87 NQ ones blocking it and i spend 2 hours searching pink search stars.

also, all 3 cities need to be built into 1 auctiontile house. making 3 auctiontile houses was a waste of time since now we have 2 easily accessible wards we still wont use. but i believe they said they would have one large searchable auction area like EQ did (giant arrow pointing you towards the gear you wanted)

but my favorite thing about the ward search is that i can skip over the "price is right" troll that undercut by 1gil