If SE is taking away my hard work...

[Alhanelem]

Solves itself over time, as people gain more money and the item that was gradually reducing over the month is now affordable because everyone has gained gil in that time, thus it balances out at a higher rate, thus costing more than it originally did.

You are so confused and I seriously, recommended you to go back and view some of the debates because you are not going to have a fundamental argument when you're out of the loop of what has already been debated.



I have no idea what you are trying to say here, you could not go buy item from ward and sell to npc for profit because the item might be 50k n sell for 50g. But the same item can be bought from vendor for 40k. Many items are like this and it has been a money making tactic for some, to buy from vendor and resell on AH. This was a key money making scheme around a year ago and is still valid in some areas on my server.

I'm sorry, but I'm not confused- you clearly seem to be though, because you say yourself you don't understand.

Keep telling yourself it's a "gil wipe" though. If it was really a gil wipe, they'd set us all to 0 and not scale gil produced/destroyed and vendor prices.

You clearly have no understanding whatsoever of economics. I highly reccomend you take Macroeonomics in college and then maybe you might understand what I'm trying to tell you.

Yoshi P knows what he is doing. He is not trying to screw anyone over or take your money away. He is simply making a system wide adjustment to the economy. He is not being some kind of jerk or something. People are panicking over nothing.

[viion]

What I'm telling you is this:

The amount of money the system creates and the amount it removes through gil sinks are also scaled porportionally in the same amount that our own gil is being changed by. Thus, value is coming in and out of the system at the same rate it was before (note the word "value"- it's important). Because of this, it won't be realistically possible for people to charge substantially differently without preventing people from being able to buy, and thereby forcing them to adjust their prices until people ARE willing to buy. You, the buyer, have a lot of power to speak with your wallet and prevent any significant economic change from taking place.

Because the demand for some items will change (because a lot of items are being changed/added/removed from the game), no, prices are not going to be exactly the same as they were before. But they already varied a lot from one server to the next and with rising and falling needs. So while some things will change, there isn't going to be some kind of economic cataclysm like some people here are hypthoesizing.

Hugely missing the point, no one is saying there is going to be a cataclysm effect, in fact a 20% loss is very minimal.

Many gil sinks do not affect many players such as Chocobo, Repairs, Airships, etc. Not to mention we have been told they're only 1/10th now so they not exactly sinking much. 500g gone is nothing to my 15m i will have in 2.0

Now, prices will attempt to be high at the start, and gradually decrease LIKE YOU SAID, but the argument here, the prediction I am making is that they will NOT go to 1/10th.

Thus the set of X items you could get in 1.0, you have an unlikely chance to be able to purchase for 1/10th in 2.0, that is my prediction here, this is a prediction argument.

Read the threads, this has been repeated.

I'm sorry, but I'm not confused- you clearly seem to be though, because you say yourself you don't understand.

Keep telling yourself it's a "gil wipe" though. If it was really a gil wipe, they'd set us all to 0 and not scale gil produced/destroyed and vendor prices.

You clearly have no understanding whatsoever of economics. I highly reccomend you take Macroeonomics in college and then maybe you might understand what I'm trying to tell you.

Yoshi P knows what he is doing. He is not trying to screw anyone over or take your money away. He is simply making a system wide adjustment to the economy. He is not being some kind of jerk or something. People are panicking over nothing.

If they set to 0, people stock in items because everything is a loss, and then they are not needing to buy so much, the reason they have done 10% is to reduce it significantly but not so much it hurts the players and a lot of people will buy into the misleading statements Yoshi has stated. Which is clearly working!

If you are going to try insult my education and say I clearly have not done economics when I can easily say the thing about you, then I am not even going to argue with you because it seems you rage too easily.

[Zenaku]

Solves itself over time, as people gain more money and the item that was gradually reducing over the month is now affordable because everyone has gained gil in that time, thus it balances out at a higher rate, thus costing more than it originally did.

You are so confused and I seriously, recommended you to go back and view some of the debates because you are not going to have a fundamental argument when you're out of the loop of what has already been debated.



I have no idea what you are trying to say here, you could not go buy item from ward and sell to npc for profit because the item might be 50k n sell for 50g. But the same item can be bought from vendor for 40k. Many items are like this and it has been a money making tactic for some, to buy from vendor and resell on AH. This was a key money making scheme around a year ago and is still valid in some areas on my server.

Talking about when you farm items like mining there some items that sell for less on the ward then the NPC or i only lose 100-250gil profit i just sell to NPC because it pointless putting it in the ward it's just does not sell fast enough. Like when i use to fish i would make 1m selling fish to npc sure i could make 1.6m if i sold it to the ward but with people undercutting and slow rate of people buying it, it really made it pointless.

that what i'm talking about some items are just worth selling to npc with the current Ward system we have.

[viion]

Talking about when you farm items like mining there some items that sell for less on the ward then the NPC or i only lose 100-250gil profit i just sell to NPC because it pointless putting it in the ward it's just does not sell fast enough. Like when i use to fish i would make 1m selling fish to npc sure i could make 1.6m if i sold it to the ward but with people undercutting and slow rate of people buying it, it really made it pointless.

that what i'm talking about some items are just worth selling to npc with the current Ward system we have.

Not sure how that is relevant? My statement regarding NPC's was of 2 segments. 1) NPC is not related to the argument because many people do not buy from NPC, so their prices can be w/e they want. Unlikely they sell to NPC to, I never did once. 2) NPC was involved in statement where players sold items for higher in wards than NPC sold it for. (Answer to Humanity question)

[VanillaLatte]

I am not saying the bow is a sure bet it is an example. I dont think any shard if it exists will be 3g/piece instead of 30g, I dont think all of the relics will be 1/10th their value, I dont think Vanya which is 2m on my server will become 200k. I dont think Militia Choker which is about 8m will be 800k. And so on, plenty of items.



You are late to the thread, so you are yelling and balling about a post someone made yesterday without reading the arguments of why you are wrong.



When it happens on Earth, the economy is reduced, all shops sell for less, because its controlled. In an MMO it is not controlled and people do not need to follow the 1/10 reduction for selling.

Everyone will go down the same, Items may not follow that trend, thus your buying power has reduced if all items do not reduce down equally. Read the thread before ya rage much.

Say there is no gil redenomination, will Vanya still be worth 2m after ARR comes? Will Militia Choker still be worth 8m?
You're assuming these are the set prices while the prices are purely driven by players' supply and demand.

The redemoniation will not immediately make sellers price their goods at 1/10 of the old pricing. But these prices will be adjusted soon enough if the sellers actually want to sell stuff. If buying power stays the same, you don't have to worry much about the price changes. If there are price changes, it will not be caused by the redenomination instead it's going to be caused by the supply and demand and ARR changes.

[Vindrax]

I am not saying the bow is a sure bet it is an example. I dont think any shard if it exists will be 3g/piece instead of 30g, I dont think all of the relics will be 1/10th their value, I dont think Vanya which is 2m on my server will become 200k. I dont think Militia Choker which is about 8m will be 800k. And so on, plenty of items.

That's the whole point though, we really just "don't know". Nothing is a sure bet. Items that are extremely valuable now, could be made completely obsolete with newer more powerful items released with 2.0. Mining could be changed to where your output score allows you to harvest more materials per swing allowing you to pull down 5 electrum ores per swing instead of 1. Speculation is fine, I personally agree with you on the shard piece, as currently shards/crystals are essentially worthless since recipes require so few and they drop in such large quantities.

But that's the counter point everyone keeps throwing at you with the redenomination arguments. You're very sure that items are going to sell for more relative value than they do currently. I'm really NOT so sure. Or I should say, I really have no idea which items those are going to be, and liquidating your gil supply into items is most likely foolish (provided that they actually make the means of obtaining gil 1/10th of what it is now). It's a guessing game at best and you shouldn't be betting on the redenomination of gil to all of a sudden make you rich from selling a stockpile of what items you perceive as holding value.

For all we know, melding rates could be drastically increased, making double/triple melded items extremely devalued, or materia might be allowed to be melded to already powerful dropped gear instead of just crafted items, or SE randomly decides to raise the level cap 5 levels. While item values might fluctuate, and you may "feel" as though you're losing 9/10ths of your gil, the reality is that gil is a MUCH safer bet on being financially secure going into 2.0. You seem sure, and I'll wish you luck that the items you are investing in retain their value, but the reality is you are playing a guessing game and just as easily could come out behind in this gamble.

i'll be honest i think people will make more of a return on lower ticket items in 2.0. that's just a personal belief and i don't have anything to back it up with. take things like electrum ingots that sell for 3-5k each because of how hard it is to get electrum(well time consuming not hard). i just don't see them dropping to 3-500 gil each. i know they will drop, but i feel as though they will wind up sitting in more of a 800-1200 gil each range.

i also believe that consumable items will have a higher demand than they have now. i just don't see 5000 gil potions selling for 500 in 2.0 with them closer to 1k+. once again, i could be wrong, but it's just a personal belief.

[Alhanelem]

Hugely missing the point, no one is saying there is going to be a cataclysm effect, in fact a 20% loss is very minimal.

Many gil sinks do not affect many players such as Chocobo, Repairs, Airships, etc. Not to mention we have been told they're only 1/10th now so they not exactly sinking much. 500g gone is nothing to my 15m i will have in 2.0

Now, prices will attempt to be high at the start, and gradually decrease LIKE YOU SAID, but the argument here, the prediction I am making is that they will NOT go to 1/10th.

Thus the set of X items you could get in 1.0, you have an unlikely chance to be able to purchase for 1/10th in 2.0, that is my prediction here, this is a prediction argument.

Read the threads, this has been repeated.



If they set to 0, people stock in items because everything is a loss, and then they are not needing to buy so much, the reason they have done 10% is to reduce it significantly but not so much it hurts the players and a lot of people will buy into the misleading statements Yoshi has stated. Which is clearly working!

If you are going to try insult my education and say I clearly have not done economics when I can easily say the thing about you, then I am not even going to argue with you because it seems you rage too easily.

The prices will settle at whatever price that is sustainable given the amount of gil and the system and each person's own willingness to pay. It's pointless to even hypothesize exactly what percentage of the original price you think things will go to, because when the economy starts back up in 2.0, the demand for tons of items is going to change. Some items will go away (arrows), some items will be needed less, others will be needed more. The economy will gradually stabalize over time. It may prove benefiical to be conservative initially, but beyond that, nobody needs to take any special action to influence the economy. It will settle on its own.

Yes, by the way, I'm fully aware it's been talked about before. THere's been like a dozen threads on this topic- but in most of them except this one, people have come to grips with the fact that the effect this change has on people is not what some people are worrying it will be. For some reason, in this one, the panic is back in full force and people like the OP are calling it a "wipe" when it isnt.

[viion]

Say there is no gil redenomination, will Vanya still be worth 2m after ARR comes? Will Militia Choker still be worth 8m?
You're assuming these are the set prices while the prices are purely driven by players' supply and demand.

The redemoniation will not immediately make sellers price their goods at 1/10 of the old pricing. But these prices will be adjusted soon enough if the sellers actually want to sell stuff. If buying power stays the same, you don't have to worry much about the price changes. If there are price changes, it will not be caused by the redenomination instead it's going to be caused by the supply and demand and ARR changes.

I am not assuming they are set in stone, I assuming they wont have a % increase in 2.0.

if Choker at 8m goes to 4m instead of 800k it has had a 50% increase to its relation of reduction. Your argument would be valid if you said that the 8m choker went UP by 50% in 2.0 to 12m, then it would be considered the same.

If nothing changed and nothing happened, and we went into 2.0 with equality then that be all fine, but we are being reduced, an item is not and has gained value at the % higher than 10. And you assume people will not buy stuff at prices higher than 1/10th of the value, inflation has proven this incorrect, and you dont know if people will or not, just like i dont know if it will reduce or not, so what i am saying is a prediction, if you predict people will not pay anything above 1/10th thats gravy, but it doesn't seem like you're predicting it, more like insisting that will happen as you've not stated you assume or predict the way people act.

That's the whole point though, we really just "don't know". Nothing is a sure bet.

Right.... and? This whole argument is about what I predict, I never once said anything is a sure bet, I never once said I know this will happen, I said countless times that I will predict "this will happen" because of "this and this and this" and people are like THAT WONT HAPPEN, im sorry but it is a possibility, it is something that could happen. You might not think it will, but I think it could.

As I said earlier, it could very well be that prices go to 1/20th of their value and you become richer in that area because you can buy twice as many now. Relics could become 1m each and u could buy 3 of them. Its a possibility that could very well happen, but I do not believe it will, thats my opinion.

The prices will settle at whatever price that is sustainable given the amount of gil and the system and each person's own willingness to pay. It's pointless to even hypothesize exactly what percentage of the original price you think things will go to, because when the economy starts back up in 2.0, the demand for tons of items is going to change. Some items will go away (arrows), some items will be needed less, others will be needed more. The economy will gradually stabalize over time. It may prove benefiical to be conservative initially, but beyond that, nobody needs to take any special action to influence the economy. It will settle on its own.

Yes, by the way, I'm fully aware it's been talked about before. THere's been like a dozen threads on this topic- but in most of them except this one, people have come to grips with the fact that the effect this change has on people is not what some people are worrying it will be. For some reason, in this one, the panic is back in full force and people like the OP are calling it a "wipe" when it isnt.

Well argue the OP about the word "Wipe", my wording is a "Loss". I am saying we are going to loose some Gil, if you dont believe that that is your belief, you can throw all the facts at me all day long and I will throw many back at you.

The economy will stabilize and this will all be moot, but I predict it will not stabilize at 1/10th, thus I have had to earn more to get to that stabilized economy. I reckon, with MY OWN predictions it will stabilize higher.

If you actually bothered to read this thread you would realise it is mainly this debate with me that is going on and no one is freaking out. You would have realised this, if you read the thread, you'd also not post stuff which has already been touched on several times.

[Rizon]

The prices will settle at whatever price that is sustainable given the amount of gil and the system and each person's own willingness to pay. It's pointless to even hypothesize exactly what percentage of the original price you think things will go to, because when the economy starts back up in 2.0, the demand for tons of items is going to change. Some items will go away (arrows), some items will be needed less, others will be needed more. The economy will gradually stabalize over time. It may prove benefiical to be conservative initially, but beyond that, nobody needs to take any special action to influence the economy. It will settle on its own.

Yes, by the way, I'm fully aware it's been talked about before. THere's been like a dozen threads on this topic- but in most of them except this one, people have come to grips with the fact that the effect this change has on people is not what some people are worrying it will be. For some reason, in this one, the panic is back in full force and people like the OP are calling it a "wipe" when it isnt.

I think the basic problem here is that you are confusing the real world economies with SE economy. In the real world governments take an active part in regulating their economies in order to ensure the very things you are talking about. As such the arguments you make would be very valid. Unfortunately SE has always taken a hands off approach in regards to the economy. Therefore Gil will always enter the economy at a rate far greater then its removal. Gil sinks and the such will have little or no effect. You will always have people who will spend every playing hour trying to corner the market in goods forcing people to spend large amounts of time just trying to make Gil to keep up. Please look up SEs history in this matter. It has always been the case with them. Til they make an idealogical shift in their thinking you will always have a problem of too much currency available. SEs current tactic of revaluation (as you wish to call it) is just a half hearted effort to redefine the starting point.

[Vanguard319]

What stops them from doing it again?

"7. All gil currently held by players will be reduced to 1/10 of current values."

Wow, so people who worked for 999 million will get dropped to 99 million? Sound fair? You know how long it would take to farm that much money, how much work, time, concentration, focus, and effort? Too much to even fathom.

What's next? Take away my gear, my character, my levels? This is ridiculous. I can see if we all played with the new ps3 players, but we will be with the old players, who have more than enough money with no complaints.

Eventually all the prices will be back to how they were. This is what it is like in EVERY online game.

I have 0 crafts and 0 gathering professions. I literally have no income, I had a nice chunk saved, not spending money until 2.0 came out. I have been saving since day 1 of the announcement. I knew the game would be a waste of time to play. Now look at it? All my dedication, gone...

Square enix, if this happens and you follow through. Ill be very disappointed. I have buying and rebuying remade games from your company for decades and I plan on doing so for decades to come. If I lose all my hard work. I might have to move to mistwalker. Hironobu sakaguchi would never let something like this happen. He knows how a final fantasy game should be made.

If no one can afford things, I guarantee it'll lead to more people buying Gil from online stores.

Oh and btw...retarded ideas like this only affect the poor. It never hurts the rich.

Thank you for your time, and I hope the Devs read my plea.

Yoshi, you're a badass director but this is uncalled for.

Man up and tell the Devs you want that idea scrapped!

having at least one gathering or crafting profession isn't a bad thing to have. You had the same oppurtunity to level them, same as the rest of us. You chose not to, and screwed yourself. They had to do something in regards to the rampant hyperinflation. IRL, the mints destroy old money in order to bring it out of circulation, to prevent that kind of out-of-control inflation. SE is just doing the ingame equivalent. Sry you're butthurt about it, may I suggest you become one of these in ARR:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entreprenuer